Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark-Humor Conversations On Serious Mental Illness & Trauma
If you live with mental illness—or love someone who does—and you’re tired of sugar-coated wellness talk, this show is for you!
"Beat The Mental Health Out Of It!" blends dark humor with real recovery so you feel seen, steadied, and a little lighter. We tell it like it is, so you don’t have to.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) and often joined by co-host Tony Medeiros ("IndyPocket"), this is a brutally honest mental health podcast about what it’s actually like to live with serious mental illness on the schizophrenia spectrum. We talk schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, psychosis, depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, BPD, PTSD, addiction, religious trauma, bad therapy, psych wards, meds, disability, and trying to build a life in a system that isn’t built for us. You’ll get:
– Lived-experience truth from someone who hears voices, dissociates, relapses, parents, plays music, and still shows up.
– Grounded insight from a mental health professional who has sat across from hundreds of clients and worked inside the system.
– Edgy, stigma-smashing, sometimes controversial conversations about mental illness, relationships, family dysfunction, religion, work, creativity, and survival.
– Challenging takeaways and coping ideas you can actually try—along with laughs that punch up, down, left, right… everywhere.
This show is for people juggling therapy, meds, trauma, and everyday chaos who want honest talk, gallows humor, and zero judgment. Whether you’re schizoaffective, living with schizophrenia or psychosis, dealing with PTSD, supporting a loved one, or just trying not to lose your mind, "Beat The Mental Health Out Of It!" gives you language, community, and brutally honest hope.
We’re not your therapists—we’re fellow passengers on “The Struggle Bus,” sharing what we’ve learned the hard way and refusing to suffer in silence.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark-Humor Conversations On Serious Mental Illness & Trauma
Transforming Isolation Into Restorative Solitude | A Guide To Depression Recovery
In this episode, we explore how to harness isolation and intentional solitude as valuable tools for depression recovery. Learn how to differentiate between moments when solitude supports healing and when isolation may lead to rumination and heightened loneliness.
This candid mental health podcast discusses coping skills for depression, relapse prevention strategies, and practical re-entry plans into social settings after feeling disconnected.
We'll delve into the messiest phases of isolation and share personal stories that illustrate what ultimately snapped us out of it. Discover the restorative powers of solitude when it helps you to reset, recharge, and re-center. On the flip side, we'll also discuss the harmful aspects of isolation, like numbness and avoidance.
To help navigate this complex terrain, we'll provide essential guardrails such as implementing time limits, regular check-ins, engaging in movement, and soaking up sunlight. Finally, we’ll outline effective re-entry plans to help you connect with others while minimizing the emotional whiplash that can accompany such transitions.
Join us for this insightful conversation on managing isolation and fostering genuine connection as we tackle depression recovery together.
Post one “solitude rule” you’ll try this week on our Discord "The Struggle Bus"—we’ll keep you accountable. (link below)
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! is a candid mental health podcast with lived experience—schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that fights stigma.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros, ("IndyPocket"), we talk serious mental illness, psych wards, religious trauma, bad therapy, meds, disability, and messy real-world coping.
New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am ET.
Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA
All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI
Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning
Can you take Yeah my back side My Backside Milk doesn't body good fans for the fan fan Fanny for the fans. Hello everyone. Hello. Welcome to uh Oh god.
SPEAKER_04:I'm not used to the couch anymore.
SPEAKER_03:Beat the mental health out of it with your put my arm around like you're my date. You're paying. I ain't got no money, don't you? I'm getting on disability. Welcome to beat the mental health out of it with your folks. With your hosts. Beat the fuck. You are having a rough introduction. With your host Defective Schizo Effective Nick and uh Oh, Indy Pocket, Tony. Hi. It's a pleasure. So before we get too far our course, as we're got a stellar start here.
SPEAKER_05:Um today we're one of the best so far.
SPEAKER_03:This is this is great. Yeah. Hopefully audio doesn't work on this one. Yeah, right. So speaking of audio not working, yeah, that was a good segue, wasn't it? Um we actually did this episode, what, a month ago? I thought it was more. Might have been. I don't know. Time has no meaning. Yeah. Einstein said It was really bad audio.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I there was it was worse than that. But I feel like we got the uh most people just weren't gonna be able to understand It was a solid episode. And I feel like there were some really solid points, like when we uh and I don't even know how you're doing that.
SPEAKER_03:I wasn't gonna attempt it, but I might vomit all over. It's many years of you want to you want to fight me?
SPEAKER_05:Come on. You were in kung fu movies?
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_05:You're I just grew up watching. Fuck you. We don't judge around here. It's not judging. It's racist. It's an observation. If I were Asian, that was racist. Why am I falling into the couch? Like my bucket ass is falling into the bucket seats. I think it's quite comfortable. My bucket ass?
SPEAKER_03:That's for later. I'll find out. Got milk. We are sponsored by Prairie Firms Milk. Are we? No. Then where's the check? All right. So what are we talking about today? Today we're talking isolation. So as I said, uh we did this episode probably closer to two months back. And at that point, oddly enough, we were both in a heavy state of isolation. Actually, yes. Um, and I think both of us have come out of it quite a bit. And um we did it back then and it was it was a bit of a It was very dark. It's a dark time, the lights were out.
SPEAKER_04:Lots of tears. No, it was a really emotional episode.
SPEAKER_03:It was a good episode. And it was, but honestly, I think this perspective might be better in a way. Because we've been through it and now we've come out the other side and we're all healed and perfect.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. That is not something we're ever gonna model on here. No. We'd be lying. Lying to our healed nor perfect. Do you believe this whole thing is scripted? I know. It's it's I mean, it's hard to write this kind of stuff. You can't.
SPEAKER_03:It really is a problem. So, um we'll kind of start off. I guess honestly, I'd like to start off where we were.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then how we kind of got through it and where we're at now, and some more struggles we might even still have a bit, because I can definitely speak on that. And then also why isolation actually can be a bit of a healthy thing at times. Now overdoing it cannot be good. And also why that can play into some other pretty serious struggles. Sometimes the reset button is a good thing, though. And isolation can be good for that, so and I'd argue in some ways that is what it was. Maybe for both of us. I'd say for me, it probably was definitely for me.
SPEAKER_05:It was a reset moment for sure.
SPEAKER_03:And the thing is, is on the outside, including myself, everybody looks in and says, you know, I know for me, and I don't mind saying this, I think people were worried I was on the dark path again. I don't know what your perception was, because you and I were kind of going through that together. Yeah. But I think you also know me well enough, and I I mean other people do, but I think you're more real about it, I think, to where like he's not in a suicidal state, he's just really going through it. I mean, that was the thing. That's the problem.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, I think that both of us were going through it, so it was so very easy to relate to what you were going through, and you were able to see what I was going through, and you knew my situation as well. And you knew mine, so so yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I think And I think it's safe to say those situations aren't exactly rectified on either side. Oh no. Not by anyone. But I think I could say I've really delved into the drumming again, and you're getting there too. Yeah, I and that's the cool.
SPEAKER_10:And boy, that helps a lot.
SPEAKER_05:I think the cool uh well, it's the whole premise of our show. The foundation, yeah. I mean the fact that both of us kind of went back to basics, like you were saying. Like Dave Leckle did.
SPEAKER_03:Um great DVD. Yeah. Dave, come on our podcast and ignore what Steve said. Yeah. They're never gonna watch it. No, probably not.
SPEAKER_05:But if they do, they'll regret not watching. Yeah, come on. Come on, you know. I mean, growing by leaps and bounds first month. That's crazy. That is crazy. Um, so thank you for those of you that are listening, thanks, watching. Yeah. All of them. Thanks, Dave. Thanks, Dave. Yeah. No, we'll thank Dave for other things. Dave, Dave definitely brought some to the table. Oh, I love it. But um, for sure. We're really just we're ball busters. We bust everyone's balls.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. I didn't actually hit him. Appreciate the girl. The reaction would have been much worse if I'd yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I had to fall in off camera.
SPEAKER_05:So with this uh isolation thing, you want to start off? Sure. I mean, you had the kernel.
SPEAKER_03:Don't necessarily need to, I don't feel the need to describe the situation because it's a very personal one. I'm sure you'll probably be on that same train with yours. I don't know that that's really what this channel's about.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I can generalize what I was going through. Yeah, I don't know if I want to.
SPEAKER_03:That's fine. Um, just because that involves another person. And yeah. So um anyway, um, yeah, I'd gotten to the point where which is very odd for me because I'm an incredibly social person and I thrive on that. I get a lot of joy from that, a lot of energy. I'm painfully an extrovert. I mean, more than most people, my dad is also that way. Um, so I guess I get that honestly. Hopefully, Max has that too. I'm looking, I hope he doesn't get, and I don't mind saying because she said it too. I hope he doesn't get Katie's social awkwardness and anxiety. It's too young to know yet, though, but he's pretty social so far. But anyway, um, yeah, being a person that thrives on that so much, and then during that time, I didn't want to be around anybody. And boy, it was kind of one of those I don't know if catch 22 is the right term, but like a lot of people were checking on me obsessively, because again, I think people were really worried where I was at, because you know, I've had suicide attempts and being passively suicidal and all those things. Boy, use that, throw that word around a lot. Getting demonetized, bitches.
SPEAKER_04:Um trying hard not to make the money. We don't want no money. We want to roll in the roll in the shit.
SPEAKER_03:Nope. We want to roll in pennies. One of my favorite one of Yeah, that's nasty. One of my favorite um quotes I used to say, I don't know if I coined this. Ha! Coin pun intended. Because I used to say um to people, like, I ain't rolling in the Benjamins, I'm rolling in the Lincolns, and it ain't the$5 bill. Oh, you guys suck. A numismatist joke. I don't even know what that means. Coin collector. You are the poetic one on this channel. I'm the one who word fumbles. Well, I actually was also a nerd and was a coin collector, so. I collected coins, but I didn't know what the hell it was going on.
SPEAKER_07:I'm a coin collector.
SPEAKER_03:But um so yeah, I mean, it it was a really odd place for me to be. And I'd been that before, but we're talking, I mean, 20 plus well, 20-ish years before, like when I was having those problems, the suicide attempts and the problems that I did isolate then all the time, and it wasn't to that level, but it wasn't that dark either. Plus, I've been medicated in therapy and found drumming and all that since then. So you know there's coping mechanisms with that. But before I go into you, I was just gonna say that I found healing through that, and I feel better than I did. And I'm finally getting more content out there drumming-wise, and we got really diving into this podcast, like getting episodes cranked out, yeah, getting interviews on here. I mean and really truly getting some response.
SPEAKER_05:And getting some response. This this can be hard enough as it is trying to perform for an audience that just isn't there, but then to see crickets, the numbers, you know. Yeah, it's great. And and I mean, I know you're also getting some some feedback from some people and some really great ideas coming in too.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I tell you what, I love hearing the feedback. Super excited about all of that. And got, you know, three or four interviews coming up. It's crazy. So it's resonating, and it's a beautiful thing to see. So that's my perspective, at least where I was. I'll let Tony share his and then we'll kind of bring it back around.
SPEAKER_05:So my perspective was a little more pedestrian. It was the end of a relationship, you know, about four years. Um and just that coming out of it piece uh was isolating even like you, you're you say you're extremely extroverted. I feel like I used to be more extroverted, and as I've gotten older, I've gotten a little more introverted. Um, I need that time to kind of recharge. And I think with everything that had gone on with the relationship and you know, shared friends and things like that, I really, really pulled back to the point where I was even going to quit playing live. Yeah, I was gonna you you finally came back around on that too. Pull back on literally everything. So you weren't drumming, you weren't well I wasn't drumming, I wasn't drumming.
SPEAKER_03:You were doing the podcast, but even that was rough for you. And honestly, it was for me at that point too. Just because when you're in the shit, you're in the shit.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and but it's the weird part is that while I have isolated in the past, I always had the music to fall back on, and this time was different in that music was no longer therapeutic. I had fallen so deep and was in such despair that even the thought of trying to be happy with music felt bad. So I know that part of it only really lasted a couple of weeks, and that's when I did start drumming again and started to kind of come out of it, and you know, we just sat in there a minute ago, and and you're like, oh my god, I can see it coming back in you.
SPEAKER_03:And oh yeah, the light is in your face when you play. It's not it doesn't seem like an obligation or a chore.
SPEAKER_05:It's like fuck, I'm gonna be. And it was.
SPEAKER_03:You you can testify to that, that it was.
SPEAKER_05:It was a it was like, oh, I gotta get out there and oh the the days my gigs would come around, I would just be like, I just want to go hide. I didn't want to load up drums, and it was always just this big thing. But in coming back out of that, and we can discuss again a little more about what brought us out, but I think like what what did you find in your isolation? Because I know some of the things I found about myself, which is I'm I'm glad you brought it up at the very beginning. Isolation itself, if you can get the turn of consciousness tab, the the turn in your mind to see it as the reset moment. Yeah. Um that is the important part, because if you wallow in it, and and I have to say, I don't remember that that's what we really harped on.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, we didn't weren't aware of it at the time. Yeah. That's why I thought actually this mind it'd kind of be a blessing in disguise.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because now we have a both perspectives in it and then after.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:So I think it could be more helpful.
SPEAKER_05:And I think plenty of people, I mean, I know throughout my life, there have been periods of isolation that you know, if you I mean, hell, break it down in the the hero's journey, if you Joseph Campbell, right? You you look at those things, and there are times that test our hero, right? And there are moments in that journey where the hero truly does have to be isolated. You're my hero.
SPEAKER_04:Likewise. There goes my Taylor.
SPEAKER_00:And when a hero comes, okay.
SPEAKER_05:I can't do Mariah. That's another hero.
SPEAKER_03:I can be your hero. Enrique Lacia.
SPEAKER_01:Did you start with Foo Fighters? Is that what you said? Yeah, my hero and you did.
SPEAKER_03:And they say that a hero can save us. That's uh Chad Kroger, Kroger, Kroger.
SPEAKER_05:Kruger Kroger.
SPEAKER_03:The guy who owns the Kroger swords and Ralphs and all that. Yeah. Those linebacker guys, they were good.
SPEAKER_05:Anyway. I didn't I didn't get that one. I need that joke. Nickelback?
SPEAKER_03:Oh. Yeah. You said linebackers, I know.
SPEAKER_05:I was being like coinbackers. Really know. Yeah, something like that. Numismatist backers.
SPEAKER_03:Mike correct. T M. There it is. We're gonna make a shirt of that. Check our web store. Trademarked. We're gonna have shirts that say minimal whatever the floor is. Numismatist back.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that. You're welcome. Yes. Yeah. But actually, you you do need to throw out the uh the struggle bus. The struggle bus discourse. We gotta get that going. I will I'm working on that. It's it's gonna happen. There's some logistics to this display. This ultimately, this is gonna be a community. You know, it's already starting to develop into that. Yeah, sorry. I can't help it. You have to.
SPEAKER_03:I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05:I love me at community shit.
SPEAKER_03:You're great at expression.
SPEAKER_05:There is nothing more important about this channel than the community it will create.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:You know, there's without beating this dead horse, because if you've listened to a single episode, you've already heard it, but this is going to be real talk. We are not going to throw out a bunch of facts. It's going to be life experience and full-on darkness if there is darkness to be represented. We are going to genuinely have conversations that are real. And we want to encourage you to reach out. We would love, I don't care if you're famous or not. Would love to have different people more for the everyday.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Famous people got access to all sorts of shit if they take advantage of it. That part's true. But anyway. Of course if they want to be on here too.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. But um please write in. Give us give us your ideas too. Like, hey, why don't you fuckers talk about well, because we didn't think of it, so we're so glad you wrote in.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I got a list of honestly of 50-60 topics, but like this, there are a plethora of more topics. There are a placenta of more topics.
SPEAKER_05:A placenta, yes. A placenta of more topics.
SPEAKER_03:Um I love that. Birthed from my mind. We should dig in. That's gross. I've seen I would never watch something like that. No, you didn't uh when you guys ate your afterbirth. No. That used to be a thing, didn't it? Is that still a thing? Oh yeah, I'm sure. That is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. It's got I've never seen it. I don't want to see it. You didn't watch your son's? What? You didn't watch your son's birth? Oh, and CD.
SPEAKER_05:It was C-section.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, so I never lucky. Got it. Yeah. I'm okay with it.
SPEAKER_03:It was fucking weird. I watched that she wished she would have saw it. I'm like, no, you don't.
SPEAKER_05:You don't.
SPEAKER_03:You didn't miss out.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, honestly, just to know that something that big could fit there. Along with the fucking baby? Yeah, no. Okay, we're done with this part. We should go back to isolation. We're back. That baby was isolated.
SPEAKER_03:Is the Pluscope in the afterbird the same thing? Am I getting things missed? Yeah, good. Okay. Wondering if I was just talking out of my mouth. Oh, is that what that is?
SPEAKER_05:Dickle. Yeah. Yeah. I did hear a good one though. Do you know why, you know, men do the talking? Like they they're always talking and thinking things out and really like sort of talk or um they're the thinkers in the situation. I already screwed it up. Thinkers in the situation, right? And then the women are the ones who are just they're talking about. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_03:I I were I want to say what I think the result is. What do you think is because our dick's in their mouth? No. God damn it.
SPEAKER_05:No, because we have two heads, so we're always doing the thinking, and they have four lips.
SPEAKER_03:So okay, that was maybe as bad, if not worse.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I I liked it. Anyway, sorry I butchered it, folks, but feel free to it's not mine. Use it as you want. So, isolation, where do you want to go with this?
SPEAKER_03:I mean, I know I took you off the There Goes My Hero thing. Ah, I loved it though. You're in the hero's journey, and we went way off course, as usual, as is our brand. And now we can pull it back around. The ADHD struggle bus. You know I found out I have OCD tendencies with why we're such good friends. You also do. I very much do. You have it worse than I do. Probably. Yeah. I like comparing cancer to OCD. I don't know which is worse. Let's get that controversy going.
SPEAKER_07:We struggle in silence over here. You cancer kids get all the good stuff.
SPEAKER_03:No, that's not true. Organizing all your pillboxes.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. Yes, my pill boxes are organized. But with isolation, sorry. I'm trying really hard. We really do have to. But with isolation, um, as I was saying, like the hero's journey, it's it's about the grow it's the growth period. And what's funny is when you first feel your isolation, it doesn't feel like growth. It feels like death.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it feels like a backtrack. It feels like you're it feels like you cannot get tracked. It feels like you're imploding within yourself.
SPEAKER_05:Yep. That's how I describe it. I think there's a lot of a lot of people probably feel it a bunch of different ways, but ultimately it's never seen as a positive.
SPEAKER_03:No. Um and from the outside, people look in and say it's not positive.
SPEAKER_05:Well, yes, because a lot of people are responding to your emotions instead of really looking at the situation itself. Right. Which is really hard to do when you're in it. Yeah. Because I gotta say, I don't remember us having anything really positive to say. We had some good conversation.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Well, we were in a way feeding off each other's low point to I think validate what I guess. You know, I don't I don't know exactly, but we were I think we both helped each other through that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, I would say so.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, we also, being that we were isolated, so we had our therapy moment. Yeah, we have a lot of those on and off camera. Yeah, truth. Um truth. But with that, I thought it'd be interesting before we get to kind of where we're at now and how we got there a little bit. I did want to share kind of the perspective of those on the outside looking in. Um, so I I bet we had some very different perspectives, so yeah, go. Yeah, I mean I can share it because I was gonna go to my parents. So you know we're okay. So, you know, um my parents are both incredibly involved in my life and and wanted, you know, I want them to be. And very lovely people. And incredible people, both of them. Um and um but at times I feel like they can be a bit too invasive. Damn Paris. I mean, that's I think that's pretty typical of a lot of parents. Yeah. Um, but what I'm the perspective I want to share, and this is gonna be a hard one to hear, I think, for a lot. Your kid will say it to you someday, too. Yes. Hopefully not this this part though. Oh I'd rather him not say this part.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03:But that was fun. Max, if you're listening, don't say this. He'll listen to this 20 years from now and be like, God, dad, oh, what an idiot.
SPEAKER_05:You're so cringy, dad. I'm a god. The fact that made me say cringe is cringe.
SPEAKER_03:Cringe is cringe. Which is cringe. You know what's funny is uh he was playing my drum kit today a little bit. Cool. And I said, I recorded it, or my wife recorded, he was on my lap playing, and I said, Virgil, we're coming for you. You started at three, he's ten months old, bitch. Yeah, I called him out. Did he maniacally laugh? Max? Yes. I might have. You've worked that out, by the way. Yes, that was pre-planned. Um your parents. Yeah. So, um and I think I mentioned on here before how, you know, they especially early on are what got me through. Um, and to kind of give a perspective that I think it would be a bit unique to them as why they do struggle so much when I'm in a dark place, and especially why they're incredibly concerned when I was isolating, is because, and this is very brief to give. Um, I mentioned, you know, I had a stillborn twin uh brother who passed at birth, and then of course, I was born with schizoaffective disorder, which comes with an enormous amount of stress, pressure, sacrifice on their part, by the way. Um, and uh, you know, I was 13-ish, um, attempted suicide three times and you know, suc succeeded. Then I came back, but uh gosh.
SPEAKER_04:I am I went, I met my brother, we had lunch, I came back because he told me don't fucking stay here. Then I tried again.
SPEAKER_03:I am Schizoeffective Jesus. Schizoeffective Jesus. That's actually a full reference.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, what I am the Messiah. I am Marvel Jesus.
SPEAKER_03:Marvel Jesus. Wow. My favorite jokes in that is often all he's like Marvel Age Christ. That's how he says it. That's a great fucking movie. My god. I get so much joy just from thinking of those movies, let alone watching them. You know what sorry, I didn't mean to make light of that. You know what Jesus' least favorite candy is, right? Mim and M's. Yeah. You want to explain why? No. Nope. We'll let you guys figure it out. It's hard not to explain.
SPEAKER_01:Why?
SPEAKER_03:I can see.
SPEAKER_01:Didn't we just do an episode of religion? We might have.
SPEAKER_03:I know it gets lost in the mix a little bit. But um, so you know, keeping all that in mind, and then of course, I mentioned, you know, when I was 16, my grandmother committed suicide. And what I meant to say before, which I mentioned before anyway, is that I almost was successful twice. I did not succeed. I am here. Clearly. Or am I? Am I all of your hallucinations? Wouldn't that be crazy? A mass hallucination. Like the whole world is hallucinating my fat ass. You're that's crazy. Y'all are fucked up. Y'all are cra why'd you hallucinate me? Y'all making me miserable. All right, dude. Um, you know, all that considering, and then when I get in dark places, especially this last time, you know, I was not returning texts to people. I was not around people. I was avoid, and that's just not like me.
SPEAKER_05:And this man sends epic texts that expand different times of different dimensions.
SPEAKER_03:I'm serious. Yeah, uh, honest to God, my wife, everybody says that I am the most um You're using the media wrong, man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Write an email.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it's worse than an email. It's a novella. It kind of is. Oh, it's it's crazy. There are chapters sometimes, but well, the reason why is because text you can't convey emotion. So I have to really explain the emotion and over explain things. So that's the problem. Yeah. I actually asked my wife if you prefer those people who send like 15 rapidly of one word, or do you prefer somebody who sends one with 10,000 words? Her answer was the former.
SPEAKER_05:Well, it's easier to read, especially when you're driving. Um the novella is very hard.
SPEAKER_03:Nick, damn it. Your text got me in a wreck again.
SPEAKER_01:My insurance is going up because Nick keeps dog gone texting me. Just call me. Alright. So what's wrong with the phone call? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05:Now all I can hear is that stupid. Oh, slapper, slasher, hunker. I have a fur, hunk of cheese. Jesus. Showing our age on the show.
SPEAKER_08:There's so many ostriches. They said there'd only be a few ostriches. This is a terrible vacation. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05:You remember that one? Uh yeah. Uh now I want to hear you do it as Nicholas Cage. Really?
SPEAKER_06:I think there's so many ostriches. They said there'd only be a few ostriches. This is a terrible vacation.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that was great. Okay. So you asked for it. I know. No, I think our I think our viewers deserved it. They did. They definitely did.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I keep making light of this shit. When you guys hear the suicide episode, it's that same thing. When I'm talking about me, because it's you know how I go. Self self-deprecating humor is my favorite.
SPEAKER_05:We definitely believe on this channel, though, that humor is healing.
SPEAKER_03:That's how you get through the I came up with a cool analogy for that, if I can get it right. So laughter is the best medicine. Medicine cures mental health. Or helps manage mental health. Laughter helps mental health. Is that pretty good? Yes. Have I told you that one? Say it again. So laughter is the best medicine. So you're saying laughter is medicine. Yeah. Medicine helps physical or mental ailments. It doesn't cure, but it helps. Yeah. Laughter is your medication for helping your physical or mental struggles. I like it. Yeah. I actually believe that. Can you put all that on a t-shirt? Bumper sticker. Oh. Actually, it's one of those full window ones. Full window. But like you can't see out of your rear view. Not the digital one that just scrolls across. Is that a thing?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You never seen those up in the back? Not in a car. I've seen them like over the Marat or something.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so were you still talking about your parents? I'm so sorry. Okay. I've got a problem today.
SPEAKER_05:Clearly, we have some mental health issues on this show. Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Um so anyway, with all that in mind, it took me a while to under I'd had to be out of that isolation myself to understand that perspective. That why wouldn't they be terrified that their surviving son, who has a history of suicide attempts, is passively suicidal, has relapsed several times. Why would they not be terrified in that situation? So I guess what I'm getting at is why from the outside, being somebody who has my history and my illness, why that would be terrifying for those that care about you. I'm pretty sure sheer terror. So and that's a perspective that having my son helps with just because I now have a child that I can only I can only imagine at this point what that would be like. If you were to lose him. Yeah. I can really only imagine that. And I don't want to imagine that. So I guess, you know, the fact that they lost a child, even, is unfathomable to me. They describe it as both the best and the worst day of their life. And then on top of that, their surviving one ended up with what I have. Right. Yeah. And it's not like that changes their love or anything. It's just like, good lord, not only they lose one, but they s they had to sacrifice having two children, and then all the things they had to sacrifice just to make sure I stayed around. Now what's funny is I had this conversation with my mom probably a few weeks ago. I kind of told her, I I think I understand why you guys are a bit more invasive than than some. Yeah. And I I meant that from a place of validation and love. Well, yeah. Because now that you're a parent. Yeah. It is a different thing. You can definitely. And I I can say that, you know, yeah, as I mentioned before, you know, I do have a pretty good fear of that he might end up with what I have, which I know is not likely. But it is a genetic thing. So it is in there somewhere. Um so I can't say that that's not on my mind a lot, but the thing is, um, when I told her that, she said, Well, if you ever can think of it this way, then think you owe us your life. With everything we've sacrificed, and this was her words. With everything we sacrificed for you, and we even lost Brandon, not because of you, but we did. Right. Then you owe us your life. I don't know if that's exactly the fair perspective, but I understand that now. It's like, well, we put all this into you. It it is this money, this time, this effort, these sacrifices.
SPEAKER_05:Right. I mean, it is but it's I mean, it's why they say, you know, um you the the the thing you hate, actually, about how people will say, Well, don't commit suicide, it's such a selfish act. Right.
SPEAKER_03:And it's because of that very Yeah, and actually in that suicide episode, we talk about that. Right. The person who's in that moment, or considering that. Right. Probably the last thing you want to say to somebody. That is the last thing you want to say, but I wasn't at that point. And I do have the kind you Well, not when that conversation took place. That's what they say. That's what you're saying. When that conversation took place. And they also, mom and dad, have the history and they know it intimately. Yeah. So it is a bit of a different thing, even yet. But anyway, um, kind of getting on, moving on a little bit to what I discovered in that isolation, is interestingly enough, I discovered that I do need more space. But oddly enough, I kind of found out my wife did too, because that's what's interesting is that, you know, a bit of a conflict, and I think it's fair to Cher, she wouldn't have a problem with this, is that a bit of a conflict we've had lately is that, you know, meeting each other's needs is hard always, especially with a newborn. Sure. And one thing is that, you know, we feel guilty when we don't spend time together. But then when we're together, we're either both so exhausted or so preoccupied, you know, with Max or other shit we have to deal with that we're not present with each other, even when we're with each other. So we had this conversation, honestly, like three nights ago. Um, and we, you know, we both kind of can't, you know, and I had kind of already discovered this. So I was on this, I was there with it, but Katie was not. She had to kind of be, I had to kind of talk her through it, that hey, I kind of discovered that when I have because what's interesting is that I when I'm with her and Max now, that I got through that isolation period, and I'm finding joy in the drumming again and getting my needs met on my own that I can do. Yeah, when I'm with them, I'm present. And what's interesting is that she mentioned that, well, I don't I don't feel present myself, like her, in those moments. And that's when we got on this conversation. I said, you know, because she's like, well, I feel like I I have to be with you anytime I put Max down, or anything like that. And I said, here's the thing. I said, when you're with me, you're not present because you know, you you give all your energy into him, and then you don't have a lot of time because he's so damn clingy to you. So you are everything to him, and I can't even interject a lot because he won't let me a lot, you know? Yeah. So it's not it's not your time yet. Yeah, you'll get your shot. I'll get my shot later. I'm looking forward to it. And I know it's gonna be hard to. Um, and you know, she says, as a as an amazing mother that she is, she wants that from him, but admittedly it's exhausting and she doesn't get the time. So basically, what I kind of told her is I said, hey, you know what? In the time that you get him down, you need to prioritize your own time. Make sure you are doing what you need to do. Don't do fucking chores during that time. Yeah, don't necessarily hang out with me. That's fine. But I said, if you need to just sit and watch TV or listen to your audiobooks or listen to Beat the Mental Health Out of It on Spotify, um, Audible, Opple Podcast, iHeartRadio, and YouTube. Yeah. Um sorry. Can't get away from that. Shameless. She sure can't. But anyway, I said, prioritize the time you need. And what's interesting is she's been doing that. And then are we together physically as much? No, we're not. But the fact that when we are together, it is a fully present thing, and we can enjoy things together now better. It's not like we were in a terrible place, but like it's helped her kind of having that perspective that I kind of learned in that isolation. And now, yeah, I'm I am prioritizing having some of my own time to drum, to play video games here and there, to work on the podcast, to do all this stuff. And now she's doing that for her. So when we come together, we're both in a better place. So that's my perspective. Awesomeness.
SPEAKER_05:My turn.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, okay, cool. No, that is that is awesome, actually. And there's it's interesting the parallels in my experience of this isolation piece and and the coming out of. Although I'm not completely sure that I'm. I don't know that I'm out of it, but I don't it's not as dark.
SPEAKER_03:If I can share, I don't think you are quite there yet.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. It's but it's almost self- I it's benefiting you right now.
SPEAKER_03:Like I think it's actually. Yes. Like I'm You feel good about it right now. I I am okay to be in this level of isolation. And you're not as deep as you were.
SPEAKER_05:No, not for for sure. For sure. But to to start kind of putting the parallels in place, but how differently they um applied will go to my parents. Sure. Um, when that relationship was ending, my parents were telling me to go into isolation. They were telling me to spend time by myself and to, you know, get to know myself and all the cliche bullshit you hear.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you mean like recently, not when you moved out or something.
SPEAKER_05:You're talking about this past relationship, this one you just Yeah, this last one that put me into an isolative place. I, you know, my parents were coming to me but worried about a very different thing, obviously. Um but you know, I've I've had just to give context to it, it's 2025. So we're we're talking about ten years of me, you know, going in and out of three to four year long relationships. Serious ones. Yeah, serious relationships. Huh? No, the marriage was prior to that.
SPEAKER_03:That was over ten years ago. Yeah. We've known each other too damn long. We need to isolate from each other for a while. Don't we? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a sign, right?
SPEAKER_05:Some more shit needs to happen so we can come back and actually find something to talk about. Um we have nothing to talk about. Ever. It's so sad. We do have to script all this. Anyway, so my parents tell me, like, you need to go into isolation. You need to be alone for all the reasons that everybody always talks about. You know, with a relationship, don't just jump right into something else. And and I will say, I I'm probably more of the not that it's healthy, but I'm probably have been more of the mind, well, if you can't get over them, get under somebody else.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that adds been kind of a little bit, you know.
SPEAKER_05:It's like, okay, fine. Well, that one didn't work, but I might as well find myself a roster, um, which never lasts for long. I always end up, you know, committing. But um my parents were like, you know, you need to go off on your own, you need to discover yourself and all the stupid things that people say to you in those moments. And I was every bit as frustrated as everyone else who's had to sit and listen to this horseshit about going and finding yourself. I I know myself. I mean, at this age, fuck, if I don't, we're in big trouble. Uh but the thing of it the thing that really ended up being healthy because I did, I mean, I took a minute to just truly totally be alone. But once again, dove headlong into trying to meet someone. And ended up, you know, through a set of circumstances kind of pulling back from all of it. And the the funny thing is Best thing you could have done. Huh? Best thing you could have done. Yeah, well, the the self-isolation, the self-imposed isolation. And it's funny you bring up, you know, that that your your wife likes to listen to audiobooks. I I got on Audible. Because I'm like, well, they don't really have the time to read, and every time I do read, it's like 15 minutes. Yeah, I'm in in listening to audiobooks, I can listen to them, you know, in drive time and and when I'm cooking or whatever. Which is gonna beat the mental health out of it, which is available on Apple Podcast. And I've listened to all of the pr the different platforms, and oh my goodness, it's different on each one, so please. It is. But but the idea being is like once I kind of dedicated myself to the isolation, when I just gave into it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:My conscious choice.
SPEAKER_05:That's and I and I liken it to okay, so isolation has this negative connotation to it. And it's going to, because it's never usually fun when you first start.
SPEAKER_03:And well, I would like to get not now, but why it can be a negative thing. And when it becomes a negative thing.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah, keep going. And and why we want to build a community, right? Yeah, exactly. That's my shtick. Um, but no, I I almost liken it to the moment you shake hands with isolation, is the moment the seed germinates. It's like planting the seed of growth. Because if you can take on isolation head on and walk through it and don't try to avoid it, it's and it doesn't have to be a a journey of self-discovery or whatever bullshit Hallmark is, you know, peddling this week. It it can just be a minute to catch your breath, it can be a minute to refocus yourself, it can be a moment to find something new, but it ultimately it is the germination point. Like that is the moment you are ready to blossom, to grow. Some beautiful thing is gonna come out of it. Um you know, one of the things that I have come to know intimately, your your bus your biggest successes. Why did I all of a sudden sound like walking?
SPEAKER_03:Because you try to do that damn impression all the time, you just can't get it down.
SPEAKER_05:I'm so bad at it, but I heard it. Um anyway. It was the inflection wasn't pretty there. Yeah. The idea that no, alright. No, my successes have never really taught me anything. They feel great. You know? I've had some big ones, and really truly was like, this is it, I've made it, and it's not as gratifying, which is crazy to say, I can't I can't say I'm as grateful for those experiences as I am for my failures. Because the failures force you to look at something that is wrong or is you know not developed as it should be, and so on the other side of those failures is growth, is a lesson, is beautiful. Like life is waiting for you on the other side of the failures. So, I mean, I've gotten to the point where I don't necessarily jump up and down and go, yippee skippy, another failure. But the idea that failures are never fun. Yeah, I mean, it sucks to go through it, but so does isolation. And so kind of drawing the parallel that those are moments that if you you know, you get your you get your britches and you pull them all the way up and you put your boots on and one step after the other kind of thing, those moments that test us are the moments that truly show us who we are, and and and maybe even shine light on the us that we can become.
SPEAKER_03:So to the soul you'll become. Yeah, that's it. Right there. Oh gosh, we right here, man.
SPEAKER_05:You're not ready to wrap it up yet, are you? Oh god, no. That would be the perfect spot. I know, damn it. I blew it. Fuck. I can't I went off script again. Yeah. Carl! But but no, the idea. So my parents tell me to go in, and I'm like, oh no, fuck about it. And now I've chosen to go into the isolation. And the the really crazy thing is that the growth is making me happier than trying to find somebody to get under, so to speak.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and just forcing yourself to socialize when you're not ready.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. There's oh my god. Which isn't fun either. It's the dumbest thing, and he's seen the setup. I set up, you know, my practice pad and my pedals and everything with a music stand with music books and everything, right in front of my 80-inch TV, and I watch movies and I zone out. It's the craziest thing, and it really has been a joy.
SPEAKER_03:I fucking love that. There's nothing stupid about that, like, or ridiculous.
SPEAKER_05:Like, well, the kind of stupid piece is the movie is the company. I'm not even watching the movie.
SPEAKER_03:You know what though? There's so much to discover in movies. I mean I know which I guess if you're using the term company, and it sounds like that's what you mean, is that term, which is okay. Yeah. I get that.
SPEAKER_05:They are my audience. Yeah. They are my friend in the room. But I honestly I'm gonna have to go back and watch some movies because I didn't watch the movie.
SPEAKER_03:You're drumming.
SPEAKER_05:But yeah, because I was drumming, and I, you know, when you hit flow, you're not even there, much less Oh yeah, paying attention to the movie. Watching what's going on.
SPEAKER_03:But that probably helps you escape to it, I imagine.
SPEAKER_05:It it's interesting because I have in the very beginning, I was trying to just focus my way to it. And it wasn't working. You just had to let it go. Right. So they're really I had to initially interact with the movie, but the movie now has just become the lighted stage. Yeah. So I think that's really cool. It's it's it's I mean, I don't know if it's a fair parallel.
SPEAKER_03:It's really silly. I mean I really don't think so. I'm gonna parallel it with this, is that um, you know, I I sleep to music every night. I know a lot of people do. That's pretty common.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, you know, I might I get a I use a sleep mask that has audio in it. Having what I have, um, you know, I you know, auditory and visual hallucinations all the time. I have a sleep mask that blocks out 100% of the light, so I'm not visually stimulated by that. And then of course it has speakers in the mask. These are not cheap masks. Thanks, mom and dad. Um what's funny is I told my therapists that my mom and dad got me one of these, and they were like, Did I not tell you about sleep mask? Like, how many years ago? Like I was like, damn, I wish I found this 10 years ago. I don't know if these were really there. But they have speakers in it, and like when I sleep at night, it's similar to that a little bit, that the if I just was the lay when I used to just lay there, I would never fall asleep. There's too much damn stimulus. Um I mean that's almost one of the worst things. It's purgatory, practically. You know, you're just sitting in your own suffering, and there's no escape from when you're trying to fucking sleep. Yeah. Um, I mean, used to, I would just you actually used to, I'd have my like airpods in or like my big head, and it's not comfortable to sleep in, right? So I kind of found those and um I'm actually looking at one of them to sponsor the podcast. That would be tough. Won't name them, but I've been in talking to them a while.
SPEAKER_05:You know what would be awesome? We could do a podcast with them on. That would just be crazy because I would just be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so I'm, did you hear? What?
SPEAKER_03:No, I mean, it's an amazing thing. And I've never seen sleep masks marketed this way. And that's why I reached out to this company that I, and I went through several of them. And I finally found one that just boom hits every need. And I reached out to him, I said, Have you ever thought about marketing it to as a help for mental illness? And no, they hadn't. And I said, Well, I got this. Guess what? So I'm working on that. Um, but anyway, I would liken it to that.
SPEAKER_07:If you don't sponsor us, I'll calial.
SPEAKER_03:There you go. You gotta be the villain. Um I'm mentally out! Do you want to know why I use a knife?
SPEAKER_05:I feel like that would be even more bone-chilling if it was closer. Oh.
SPEAKER_03:You wanna know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor the little emotions.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I could quote that one. I'm pretty sure you're freaking some people out that are just listening to you right now. That's the best part. Yeah. That is the best part.
SPEAKER_03:Heath is back. Now, wouldn't that get an impression? But anyway, I do liken a little bit to that. That in order to Jesus. Wouldn't that be terrible? Joker Jesus? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That would be awesome.
SPEAKER_04:No. Really? Our father. Our father.
SPEAKER_03:It's the most disturbing thing I've ever done. It's so disturbing. How in a magic trick. I'm gonna make this crucifix disappear. Ah, it's gone. Um, I've worked on that impression. It's not too bad. Yeah, I could do better. I don't know.
SPEAKER_05:I'm looking forward to hearing it in post.
SPEAKER_03:In post, yeah. Carl, make sure you uh really amplify that. He's like, he's scared shitless.
SPEAKER_05:Carl was on vacation with Philip this week. He's chained in the back again.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, we found why we can't. We did like we posted this social media pass, like post like help us like save Carl, like find help us find Carl. Hashtag find Carl. They found him. Hot Carl. And that fucker is never getting out again. Ever. You can hear him screaming. Maybe that's just me.
SPEAKER_05:It might be the voice of us.
SPEAKER_03:A little gimp action for Carl. Hell yeah. I'm gonna get some knives and some chains and get medieval onions.
SPEAKER_05:I'm gonna start wearing a band-aid right here at the back of my skull just for that. That would be awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Great. I mean, I knew you knew what I was throwing down, but like he wasn't even that was good. Marcellus Wallace. That's right. Does he look like a bitch? Then why y'all trying to fuck him like a bitch?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Boy, we got a lot of movie stuff in here. Yeah, right. Some great stuff. I actually legit forgot where I was. Oh, I'm sorry. So, like the sleep thing. Boy, that really wasn't that important of a point to go off in that tangent.
SPEAKER_05:But um Welcome to Beat the Metal Office. Horrible. If you if you've ever listened to us, you know this is uh pretty standard operating procedure. As in there is none. Yeah. Let's just move on.
SPEAKER_03:You get what I was trying to say. Yeah. Um while you were talking.
SPEAKER_05:I was? Yeah. And it was still my turn? Yeah, it was.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I thought I had gotten too much. You're talking about the movies and how that was your company and everything.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, yeah. No, it I mean they it's it is interesting that they started out as the conduit because I had to have that background noise for me to even sit there long enough. Because I would sit there playing with just pads in a quiet room, and 45 minutes in I was ready to stab myself in the eyeballs repeatedly.
SPEAKER_03:That's why he uses a knife. The gun would be too quick.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, it would very much. Don't look to the bottle, the knife of the gun.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. We're looking to that soul will become. Which is kind of what I was talking about. That is kind of coming out of isolation and but not running from it. Like almost embracing the idea of the isolation being an incubation period for something to come, something better. So um I don't know if that's you seem like there's been some some growth. Like there's been some really good things come from this darkness. Yeah. And I would I would I mean, you just saw one of them, but I would I would argue that I really didn't enjoy seeing that.
SPEAKER_03:You can keep that to yourself next time.
SPEAKER_05:You didn't like my blue waffle. Why you always go there? Well, you're the one talking about the rusty trombone earlier. Come on.
SPEAKER_03:It's like you said, the front door's unlocked, come on in. I said, but do I have access to the back door? And I told you, as long as Reach Around wasn't off the table. And then I said, Well, Rusty Trombone sounds pretty hot tonight. I don't remember how it went after that, but I'm not sure it's worth mentioning. Um, I do remember thinking something about a Cleveland steamer, but you know, I don't think that we You gotta use a clean up steamer to clean up after the Rusty Trombone. That's really not how that would work, is it? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I forget what all that is half the time. You have to explain it to me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Um But I think a lot of that I s just the segues on this show suck. We really gotta get better writers.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Oh well. Or just writers in general. But that would take away the whole point of this. It really would probably kill the whole vibe. But uh, I think kind of what you're getting at with shaking hands with isolation is ultimately acceptance. And I think because I didn't even think about this until you start mentioning it, is that acceptance is exactly what we have to do to move on from damn near anything. Truth. Accepting, and I tell you what. I can accept that. Yeah. I don't. Oh accept that. I deny that. I reject that. Wow. No, I d I know that is logically the thing, but here's the thing. I mean, and I don't want to go off on this this tangent, really much. But regarding acceptance, you know, which is really hard for a lot of us to do to accept our situation, no matter really what it is. Um, but the one I've really struggled with and can't get over is accepting that I need disability benefits. I mean, you know, I've talked about that a lot. I don't know if I've really talked on the podcast about it. And we don't even talk about it this episode. Maybe we should do an episode on acceptance or something. Yeah, I mean itself. Perhaps, but But yeah, I I have really not been able to accept the fact that I need benefits. But that really is a tangent. We don't need to go on.
SPEAKER_05:No, but it is. I I have s I have walked beside you through your struggle with that, and I think And when there were only one set of footprints.
unknown:Oh god.
SPEAKER_03:You were carrying my BS. And then there were a bunch of like scuffs. Wow. And then just a big old face plant because I'm so damn heavy.
SPEAKER_05:Well, there was like a But not physically. But there was a V butt print right in front of my face plant, and that was the part that was really confusing.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you were carrying me and then you fell and I sat on your face. Oh, is that okay? Gave you a little uh I don't know what's that one. I don't know. Is that a Cleveland standard? I no.
SPEAKER_05:Is it just yeah, we can discuss that one also?
SPEAKER_03:Gave you a little 69. They all have but I was uh you weren't receiving the six. Is the bottom sixty?
SPEAKER_05:Doesn't matter. No, I don't think I can't. So anyway, um yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The acceptance is kind of the big thing, period, with a lot of shit.
SPEAKER_05:Well, if you're gonna be 69, and yes, you do have to bloom the bloom. Oh my god. We're we're getting a lot of movies. A lot of movies in here tonight. It was so bad that there were funniness. So good. There was some funniness in it. But you know, along those lines.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, I gotta do one of those. Oh yeah? Yeah. So, um, it's uh What were your parents? They were missionaries. And what were they what did they do after they were missionaries? They were dog stylists. So you mean to tell me they were the shit, they were into missionary before the doggy position. Nope, damn it. They were into missionary before doggy style. Yes. That was Guru Tuggin Maputa said that. Tuggin' Maputa. Tug and Maputa.
SPEAKER_04:Guru Hatha Smallvina.
SPEAKER_02:Please remove this hat.
SPEAKER_04:Please remove this from the podcast episode card.
SPEAKER_02:We should begin to die. Please remove this hat. It's not the way we should be remembered.
SPEAKER_05:What are we gonna do there? I don't know. I think we need to do it very soon. Just not now. So, the example fish all bait together.
SPEAKER_03:Although they do tend to eat one another.
SPEAKER_06:I do often think fish must get awfully tired of seafood.
SPEAKER_02:What are your thoughts, Alton? Please remove your hat. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05:Oh no, you're actually gonna do it. No, I wasn't actually gonna hit you. We're not about the violence here. You're right.
SPEAKER_03:There's enough violence in all of our minds. I like those spanky spanky in my wanky I got, I don't know. Wow.
SPEAKER_05:We're uncovering a little more than I thought we were going to today. Yeah, sorry. This is revealish. But to uh piggyback off what you were saying, um acceptance. Yeah. The interesting thing about isolation is that the moment you kind of accept that you're in it is the moment that isolation is no longer negative. Yeah. And it's you're always gonna enter on the negative side. Because nobody wants to be isolated. Nobody wants to feel good when you're in it. To go into that place. And because there's work ahead. You know that there's gonna be, you know. Anything that takes work usually isn't fun. Not usually. Until the work well, the work becomes fun once you accept. And that's that's kind of the trajectory. Interesting thing about doing this the second time.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. This is actually, even though we went on a lot of fucking BS tangents. Yeah. The content itself is better. Both perspectives.
SPEAKER_05:I would agree with that because I think there's more of a message in this one and less just commiseration. Yeah. Like, hey, everybody gets isolated and everybody feels like that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we were real that was I mean, I can you can go back and we can go back and listen to it, and the audio is terrible, but like the vibe was not great. And I think some I think honestly interesting to edit it down just to show kind of the difference in our just for a reference.
SPEAKER_05:I could do that.
SPEAKER_03:It might be an interesting ten minute short, five minute short, ten or ten or less. Just to kind of give the vibe of it. I won't post that probably on audio, but like YouTube could have it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. But I I think it would be interesting as a link embedded in this episode that people could click on and then say, wow, this is vastly different. And it is. It really is. Because well, we weren't on the right side of We hadn't gotten through the good the good part. We hadn't hit acceptance for sure. And it doesn't necessarily I mean, I I can't say that I'm out of my isolation because there is a part of me that's almost enjoying it.
SPEAKER_03:But again, that's a good thing because now it's healthy for you. Yeah. Or it's become a positive thing for you. Yeah. I think it does, I think you need to regress something a little bit here and there. I've noticed that.
SPEAKER_05:There's there well, because there are there are issues tugging in real life, you know.
SPEAKER_03:And you've got a you've got a couple really personal serious ones. Yeah, there's some and that aren't resolved. So yeah, you're you right now are going to be pulled back in some. Yeah. But you fought it off really well.
SPEAKER_05:Um and that's the thing, like, even the person that I am helping through some of those uh trials, like even that person is like, you but you've been so supportive. Like you're not you're not angry, you're not and and that's true.
SPEAKER_03:Well, self-care, you have to take care of yourself or you can help anybody else. Which kind of plays into that.
SPEAKER_05:True, but the the almost claiming isolation in this, like, no, I need my isolation. You know, because I've had well, I I was dating, and I really had to I had to tell some people, hey, I'm gonna pull back. And you did. And and it was the right decision for me. I I hate hurting anyone, and I hope that I really didn't. I I've had some really insightful conversations with a couple of people. And some other fun times. Yeah. Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_03:Uh but the thing is, is that you were helping them too, because you couldn't give them what they would end up needing.
SPEAKER_05:And that was the conversation, is that I really I had unfinished business that I really needed to attend to before I could truly give anyone a fair and that's why I think that was actually a a really neat revelation for you to make that you needed to do that.
SPEAKER_03:And it would benefit both parties. And the other thing is that so many people don't do that. They're not ready to move on, and they commit to something that they either can't or aren't ready for, and that ends up imploding, yeah, and then you have two fucked up relationships you're trying to do.
SPEAKER_05:And we certainly don't get need to get into modern dating because there is a severe lack of transparency and honesty and self-awareness. Like that that's a whole nother thing. Probably not an episode we need to do because that's that just causes mental health issues as well.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, absolutely, it does. Yeah, it absolutely does. So I've actually been fortunate enough to avoid a lot of those struggles. But uh, yeah. Um I would like to bring this around because I think this would be a good, I mean, this will be something to talk about, but it'd be good to end on this topic. Okay. Is because we kind of talked about how it can be healthy. Yeah, yep. No, we gotta talk about the other side of it. Yeah. Okay. So when isolation becomes dangerous, yes, and that's a strong word in a majority of cases, but there are times that it is dangerous. Um and you know what? I'm glad actually, you know, we did that, we did that episode that didn't record any of the fucking audio. Right. Because we were using other mics that were shit.
SPEAKER_01:Sure were.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you were just trying to show that these this one's okay. I'm sorry. Sure. You were not the brand.
SPEAKER_04:I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03:Fuck. Carl! God, there's a lot of edit out in this one. Um so if you were you remember, I brought the song Jeremy. And I think that plays into this. I love urling. Is that what that's called? Urling. Yep. Did Vetter start that? He had to be one of them. Nah, I think there was Urling before Vetter. In a gotta Vita has it by uh Iron Butterfly. In a gata da hurried. Yeah? That's an old song. Great drum solo in that.
SPEAKER_06:Isn't it?
SPEAKER_03:No. It's actually not.
SPEAKER_04:It's ten minutes of okay.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no. That was better than the solo was. Good job. Um so in that song, Jeremy. And actually, a lot came out about some self-discovery myself when we were talking about it on the episode.
SPEAKER_01:So I mean wouldn't mind rehashing a little bit of there.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, let's do the rest of the episode like that.
SPEAKER_03:Um I like my redneck version of that. Y'all gonna get now!
SPEAKER_01:Yo shoot my dog and smack my wife and you were saying So Jeremy spoke in class in class today.
SPEAKER_03:So we were talking about that, and I I used to feel well, I still feel like that song is very validating. And I actually opened up about something during that episode that didn't get recorded.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That um I don't think I'd ever opened up to anybody really about. I think you and I maybe have talked about it, and maybe not. It might have just kind of organically came out in that. But I I I'm sure most of you know that song. Um, and if you don't, you should listen to it. But I will give you the the you know, Jeremy is a is a I guess you don't really know how old he is. I imagine he's middle school age. That's uh I always kind of felt that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think the video played into that a little bit. Well, I don't remember the video. I don't know if I ever saw the damn video.
SPEAKER_03:That's a good one.
SPEAKER_05:That was definitely a good one.
SPEAKER_03:I might have to actually check that out, honestly. But um, it's about a you know, a a young Madden. He is struggling. He's struggling a lot, doesn't feel seen by his parents, um, and isolates within himself, I think you could say. And um, you know, gets bullied at school, fights back, has a lot of anger struggles, you know, bit the recess lady's breast.
SPEAKER_00:Clearly, I remember.
SPEAKER_03:Seemed a harmless little fuck. But they unleashed a lion. Gnashed his teeth and bit the recess lady's tits. How could we forget? But then they hit him with the surprise left. Or he hit them with a surprise left. Anyway, sorry. Dropped wide open. Dropped wide open. Just like So that song basically, obviously, he's a very troubled individual, and they don't verbatim say this, but I think you know exactly what happens. It's heavily implied. Yeah. Um, that he The video the video drives that home, by the way. Damn it. I I really need to watch that. I can't believe I've never seen that. I've heard the song a billion times. So he so the video show Sayers that he shot himself in the middle of class.
SPEAKER_05:Um, it is very nebulous. It could go both ways, that he shot himself or shot others. Oh, really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, damn. Yeah. That's even deeper. Never thought that. No, I'm so selfish. You bastard. No, I mean, I never thought that it was about him. Well, that kind of plays in this episode, too. That's interesting. I never thought of that as a dual meaning. I thought, okay, the reason I thought that, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome! I love that. Skull shootings.
SPEAKER_03:Yay! No. No, that's really we're so wrong. No, I didn't well, yeah, that's terrible. But like the fact that that does have a duplicitous, or not duplicitous, but like uh ambiguous? Is that the no, that's not the term either.
SPEAKER_05:Well, it that it could go either way. It could go either way. Yeah, that's ambiguous. I thought ambiguously ambiguously gay duo. We suck. We that's us.
SPEAKER_03:So that song, you know, I the reason I felt really validated by that song, the way I took it is that he took his own life in front of everybody in class. And we talked about that on the episode that you know didn't get recorded properly. And um one thing that I thought about a lot in middle school age being in the dark place I was, um, you know, and I was really, and I don't mind really saying this, I was really close to taking my life in front of everyone. And honestly, I even had a plan. Wow, it was that serious. I I was planning on during the lunch, there was a little um stage in the lunchroom where they used to do things, and I thought about going up there and just like in front of the whole fucking class doing it right there.
SPEAKER_05:Wow. Yeah, that would have made a statement for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Now, why was that statement important to me? It was because I didn't feel seen. I still honestly don't feel like I'm seen by truly anybody. And as I've shared before, I think on this podcast, is that there are things I will never share about what goes on in this head. Of course, that's everybody, which plays into the shadow self, which we're not gonna get into, but it's a legit thing, and I've been exploring that. Carl Jung's theory of the shadow self, pretty brilliant stuff. Yeah. And once we get more of a presence. And once we get more of a presence, and maybe people are more comfortable with us, we might actually explore that on camera. But that's a very hot topic right now, for sure. It is, and honestly, I'm glad it's I'm glad it's being brought to the forefront more, and people are more willing to talk about it.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and I mean, interesting thing is, is I mean, you can even really pull it on some sources here, but uh if you listen to Brene Brown, you know, she talks about integration, and that's that's why you learn about that shadow self. Yeah, and and being able to pull, you know, the fact that you just told the world, hey, I had a plan in school, I was gonna go up on the stage and lunch and blow my brains out.
SPEAKER_03:Blow my brains out. Yeah, I was. I was gonna let them all. And yeah, as you as I mentioned, you know, I I are I attempted with a gun and I pulled it. Wouldn't that be terrible? It click.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, oh well, what you suck is nothing. They all started booing. That would have been.
SPEAKER_01:You suck! Get off the stage! Is that a prop gun, pussy? Did you just hit me with a note bank cookie? Oh that's pretty true.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, so we are we are so, so bad. Um, if we weren't already canceled, we'd be canceled. Um cancel me now, baby. Yeah, we're just gonna.
SPEAKER_03:I think we live in the shadows ourselves. That's the thing. Again, you gotta find humor. And by the way, suicide's something I've had a family member who I was very close to complete. Yep. And I am passively suicidal, and I've attempted three times. You know, it's one of those things I I don't mind taking the agency myself of having humor in that. And maybe that's not fair.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and I mean, and again, I think there's there's a there's this huge, like nagging urge inside of me to be like, okay, kids, now don't anybody but understand that the reason we talk about this stuff and we treat it as a real topic that it is, is because there's I mean, you don't have to have diagnosed mental illness to have some of these thoughts. Oh, yeah, and that's like literally all of us at one time or another have had struggles with this kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. So, but the point being for this particular episode is that we are very much talking about the idea that if you do find yourself in isolation and you can accept and come to that moment of connection with you're not gonna forget the plan you had if you were that dark and that down. No, you're not gonna forget that plan. But understand that integrating that into self and being able to think about okay, so why would I think that that was a good idea? There's a lot that comes behind the why of things. Yeah, but but asking that question is brave. Oh, it is, and it's also very hard. Yeah, but again, growth doesn't happen without work. No, and so the idea that we we do and we bring all this stuff and we integrate, that growth period, isolation at its worst, can lead you to terrible things, a very bad ending.
SPEAKER_03:And that's the thing, is that I mean, I really was, I'm telling you, extremely close. Well, yeah, and painfully close to doing that.
SPEAKER_05:And and I have to say, myself having had my own struggles at one time or another, there's a moment of acceptance of that direction.
SPEAKER_03:That's you. That's exactly where I was going with that.
SPEAKER_05:So don't, you know, don't mistake one for the other. You can't. One is one is growth-oriented, one is a period. Yeah. End of sentence.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, one is the end. That's it.
SPEAKER_05:So and the thing is You were never meant to cease yourself. No. There there are there are opportunities for you. Please.
SPEAKER_03:There's opportunities for everybody.
SPEAKER_05:And anyone considering, please know that even the idea that you get on the other side of this and you come back, there's gonna be more that wanna walk that path. If nothing else, be a light for them. You know, there there are so many good things that can come from doing the 180 from that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and doing that 180 is ungodly hard. Oh, yeah. Part of it. And you're gonna feel isolated the whole time.
SPEAKER_05:You're you're gonna have to do it on your own. Even if people are actively trying to help you to come back, you are seeing it.
SPEAKER_03:That's how it always is, though. Yeah. At least with mental stuff, because that's all I can really speak to, is that I mean, people all around you can force positivity and all the shit down your throat. Yeah. Again, it comes down to the biggest step is asking for help. That's always the biggest step. And I'll tell you, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:I was just gonna say, and and I've heard this too many times. If if you haven't listened to any of our other podcasts, I work in mental health. I I spend my entire week working with people.
SPEAKER_03:Uh you're an administrative person now, and then you were for many years.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, direct direct um help like music therapy. With with these patients. But oh shoot, I lost my train of thought. Well, we're talking about asking for help is the Oh, the asking for help piece, yes. You're not a fucking burden. Uh-huh. And and I very purposely accent that with color colorful wording. You are not a fucking burden. That is something of your own mind. Yep. All of us want to feel like we're too much. And you're not.
SPEAKER_03:And it's a feeling that I still struggle with that. I mean, having the mental illness and the stress I put on wife, family is hard to feel like you're not. But here's the thing. And I think the perspective that I lost somebody to suicide who felt like a burden fed into this understanding. So I don't know if this perspective helps those of you listening who haven't had somebody do that. But I've been on literally both sides of that. Yeah. Attempted and damn near succeeded. And then been. And then I've been present. Present. We found her. So it was my grandmother. Shot herself in the head. So and what that suicide episode when we release it describes that actually in detail. That whole situation and the you know the uh the things after that. So here's the thing is that, and honestly, when I post this, I'm gonna post a link to this song. Now you've heard it. It's Burden by Citizen Soldier. Because it illustrates this is the first song I ever played you by then, I think. Yeah. And it illustrates this beautifully. I almost tear up thinking about it. You are not a burden to me. Because the you are not a burden to me is the chorus. But it starts off from the person's perspective that feels like a burden. And then it's like the second verse is the person from the outside. And it's oh my god, it's brilliant. And I recommend that band. Beautifully written. Period. But that is an amazing song because you get both perspectives. And the gentleman who wrote that song, I need to look up his damn name. We should interview him. I wonder if he wouldn't do it. That would be because he's open about all this shit. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The question is, people who get on this podcast, are they going to be comfortable with this? Um, you you cater some things to your guest's comfort, which we would do. Sure. Um definitely want a hang vibe. Yeah. But we do.
SPEAKER_05:Huh? I was noticing the guitar that's in frame. Son of a bitch. Carl! We gotta do this over.
SPEAKER_03:You mean an hour and 21 minutes? Yeah, wow. We can talk, man. I'll tell you. But people like it. But I I but that's the thing, is that song just illustrates both sides of it immaculately. I mean, you're getting both perspectives, and the ultimate message, you are not a burden to me. And here's the thing having someone who committed suicide in my life, the burden is when they when they do that. That's the burden. Because if we could have gotten her through that, which honestly I believe we could have, but again, she wasn't in a place to believe she could, and she isolated, which is why she was found the ability, or whatever you want to call it, to do that. So that's the thing. But I can tell you that the burden comes from when the person does that and completes, and then you are left with that forever. Um I that that was uh 2009, June 10th, 2009, and it's 2025. Is that 15 fucking years? 16 years ago. I literally think about it every day. Now, over the years it's tafered down how much. There's not a day it doesn't, there's literally not a day it doesn't come to mind. Suicide is a death that is different than so many others because you know how dark the fucking person had to be to do it, so that's sad. It really prints it in bold.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, you can lose somebody and to s to natural causes or whatever. And that's terrible too.
SPEAKER_03:Some of you pass as a terminal illness.
SPEAKER_05:Right. But you tend to focus on uh what the happy memories were over time. You can't find it with a suicide, you can't. I can tell you still remember some of the happy moments, it's hard, but it will be tainted with the ending.
SPEAKER_03:That's why I say it's really fucking hard. I can tell you I had a ton, objectively, I had a ton of good memories of her. But it's literally and you almost don't want to give those any.
SPEAKER_05:It is literally the period. Yeah. It is the end. And it's every single go ahead, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. I mean, every single thing that that life meant it it ends with that period. You cannot read the sentence of their life, so to speak, without ending with that punctuation. That that death is not a natural one, and it is very abrupt. Yeah, it's unexpected, and it's it's not natural, and you know you honestly you can't really conceive where the person was unless that's why I don't I mean, I'm sure that you, as somebody who has contemplated his own demise, can think through that and go, yeah, she probably felt this and she probably felt that.
SPEAKER_03:That's what's interesting. That's why I feel like I do have an incredibly valuable and unique perspective on that.
SPEAKER_05:But my guess is you would still, if you could, talk her out of it. Of course. Because you'd want her around.
SPEAKER_03:That is absolutely right, which is a selfish reason. Because God forgetting on this topic, sorry. I really wasn't trying to, but you know what, we'll go with it. We go where it goes. Um, yeah, exactly. But here's the thing is that yeah, she did that, and I understand why. On a level that people who haven't attempted or really, I mean, gotten that dark, wouldn't honestly get. It's one of those things, and that goes with anything. I've never had cancer, I don't know what it's like to have that. You can empathize and try to understand until you experience something, that's with anything. Anything. So, you know, being on both sides of that, it is it is an incredibly unique perspective on that incredibly scary dark topic. And I can say that I understand why she did it, and I can almost fucking validate it for her. Oddly enough, I'm not saying do it. That's not what I'm saying. But being on both sides in those times, I can look back when I was in that time and I can say, I know why you did that. I wish you didn't. And I wish you would have let people help you, let us help you, because we were all ready to help you, and we were really trying. That's the other thing with suicide, is especially if you're aware somebody's in a dark place and you have supportive people around you. We were all, I mean, really putting a lot of effort into helping her. But we didn't know how bad it was. She didn't tell us. She hid all that shit in here, and that's why that's that I don't want to be a burden to anyone. Exactly. Exactly. It's like if if you've got too complicated.
SPEAKER_05:If you if you're one of the lucky ones and you've got a ton of people around you trying to help, listen and hear that in earnest. They're not, it's not platitudes, they're not trying to make you happy in the moment. They're they're trying to really truly connect with you. And here's the you know, the opposite end of that spectrum. If you're struggling and you have absolutely no one, reach out to a stranger. You're not a burden on them either. Yeah. Because they don't know or care anything about you. But I'm pretty sure. About human life.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that I mean that is a human quality, human to human.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I mean, I can I'll get in the car and curse at every motherfucker who cuts me off. But ultimately, if that person were coming to me, I would not want to see them put that punctuation on their life.
SPEAKER_03:And you just have to make it known.
SPEAKER_05:It's just the idea and and really driving home the idea that as bad as it seems, for all the reasons you can find to justify, and for you know, those who have been there to be able to say, Yeah, I get it. It's it's still it's it's well, let me share the brighter side of that coin. Okay, that's fine. Because I was really gonna start to push it back towards good old Natasha Bettingfield. The rest is still unwritten. Oh like it's there's never there's never a reason to put that period on your life.
SPEAKER_03:That's actually really good. Yeah. And to kind of piggyback off that a little bit is that obviously I survived the two attempts that were really, really close. You're just gonna have to accept that you're just really bad at this. Stop. Damn it. Failure! That's kind of the best thing to be a failure, I don't think. Right. Um what a success you turned out to be. What a success of my failures.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Look how much you've learned from those failures, though.
SPEAKER_03:A shit ton. Um a shit ton.
SPEAKER_05:Look how I looped that back around. That was good. That was weird, good. Weird.
SPEAKER_02:Oh fucking hey. Right how's that working for you? Okay. Call me Dr. T. Dr. Phil.
SPEAKER_03:I was doing that family guy thing.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no. Okay. Um so wrap it up all nice and pretty for us. Yeah, so we'll end on a positive note, which is being someone who's been to that point and was very lucky enough to survive it. I can say I'm so glad I did. And that's the example I want to show. Is that had there continued to be struggles after? Yeah. Was it a long road to get out of that depth? Absolutely. It's still a struggle. Not to keep bringing this up, but being passively suicidal, it's something that comes up in my head multiple times a day. But it's not a consideration. It's merely a compulsive thought. It's never something I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna consider how to do that now. No, it's not that. It's just something that's constantly, you know, going. But here's the thing is that. If this is a good example of nothing else, I would have been 13 and dead, right? So here's the thing is that I never would have found drumming to the extent I did. I never would have cultivated the friendships I did that I still have, including ours. I never would have met my wife. I never would have had my child. Tell me about it. She is gorgeous. My God. Katie, if you're listening.
SPEAKER_04:Meet me in ten minutes. You're absolutely him.
SPEAKER_03:Him, not me. Him. Oh, you did say that. Yeah. Mean him in 10 minutes. No. Yeah. I mean for you to say that. Oh, yeah. We're just going to stop there. Stop there, dude. Katie, Nick in 10 minutes. For sure. That'd be really quick because I got a drive home. I'll bet you could get there.
SPEAKER_04:For that, yes. We're going to end this episode right now. All right, we're done.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but seriously, there are so many amazing things. Unfathomably amazing things.
SPEAKER_02:Keep bringing that word. Unfathomable. Yeah, oh that's unfathomable.
SPEAKER_04:It's fun.
SPEAKER_02:Without fathom.
SPEAKER_04:Without fathom. Mega mine. So great. The spider. One small bite. Splider. I reckon it's deathicus. Sorry.
unknown:Black mum.
SPEAKER_08:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03:That's another good one. That's another good one. But seriously, I mean that's the thing. Again, look at look at the joy we're having right now. I never would have had that experience. Never would have had it.
SPEAKER_05:None of it. And so and ultimately we wouldn't have this either.
SPEAKER_03:I wouldn't be able to fuck all you guys up even worse.
SPEAKER_05:The brain child over here coming up with, you know what we should do, Tony?
SPEAKER_09:We should do a podcast where we're idiots on camera for the enjoyment of others.
SPEAKER_05:I love it. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_03:I think is jolly good. I'm getting tired. It's late. Um, but seriously, I think that's a perfect bow to put on this whole thing. I know we kind of got on the suicide topic, but and well, that I think is the one of the worst outcomes of toxic isolation. Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I actually like that. That pairing. Toxic isolation.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, there are other ways you could go. Um obviously there's a lot of violence that happens due to isolation and not being seen or not asking for the help or being misunderstood. There's all that. But the fact is, I don't really want to get into all that because honestly, that's not an experience I've had again. Um I think it's interesting not to pull this back around, but that Jeremy could have been seen either way. I never thought that. That's not an experience. That can I just say that's not like that's not what I considered at all. Yeah. I hadn't that did not even come to my mind when I was in that state to be like, I'm not gonna take my life, it's gonna be everybody else's. It wasn't about that. The statement I wanted to make was my own life. Right. But you know what? If that was a way you could take Jeremy either way, then being in that low state, apparently that is a way someone might take it. Well, I mean, unfortunately, we've seen too many people that are. I would argue isolation can play a big part into that. Most definitely. I mean a huge part into that. Most definitely. And you know what? There's so much that causes isolation. It's not just family situation, money situation. God, the um political issues cause it. Political shit. I mean, social media can really hurt that. Um there's a lot of things that can play in isolation. And the fact is, I really firmly believe that just like Tony said, reach out to somebody. You can go to an emergency room. Yeah, they will do. Yeah. You can go to um Go meet a hot nurse. Yeah, that'll sure take you out of it. Hello. Hello, nurse.
SPEAKER_04:Hello, nurse. I'm suicidal. Oh.
SPEAKER_02:We are paper plate contracts.
SPEAKER_03:I was thinking, like, hello nurse, I'm suicidal. You want to help me not be suicidal? Yeah. Yeah. Um, but seriously, like you so many helping hands. Okay, I hate that sound. I hear that daily.
SPEAKER_05:Whoa. Okay. But seriously.
SPEAKER_03:Shadow self coming through. You're gonna see a lot of that. You know what? A lot of what comes out in this show in front of you guys, I would argue, is a bit of that. You're welcome. I think I think both of us are will at different times utilize it for that as well. But seriously, that's the thing. Um, is there are resources you can call a suicide hotline. They do help. They do help.
SPEAKER_05:Um And I I mean, I having not been in that place, but having spoken to many people and having heard Nick repeatedly discuss some of the well, but some of the the head spaces that get you to places where you might consider something like that. Yeah, you get you get sick of hearing it, and you're like, Yeah, they don't really care, they don't really mean it, they don't really but this is the thing you don't need them to care or mean it or connect to you directly in that moment. What you need is someone to help you connect with yourself enough to decide not to choose that path.
SPEAKER_03:And feel like you're seeing on some level.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, ultimately it doesn't have to be a soul connection with the person that gets you to make the turn.
SPEAKER_03:That's an existence.
SPEAKER_05:But you know, in in referencing that Natasha Beddingfield song, the rest is still unwritten. There are no guarantees, right, that it that it gets better right away. No but if you approach it just like what what we were talking about, like both of us have talked about in isolation. If you put if you put the work in, and this is the thing, isolation is the perfect time for you to focus selfishly inward on yourself. It is uh almost a time built into your life to be exactly that. Take a minute, take a moment, look at what your situation is, find the allies that you need, and then walk. Walk forward, take that hero's journey to the triumph.
SPEAKER_03:And you never know what it's gonna bring you.
SPEAKER_05:You you really don't. But honestly, it's not always just gonna be shit.
SPEAKER_03:It sure won't. I mean, since I'm 13, yeah, there's been a lot of shit that's happened in my life. There's been a lot of amazing stuff, too. But the positivity that's happened far outweighs it. And the fact is, as we all know, and you guys know, life ebbs and flows completely.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, definitely.
SPEAKER_03:There's high points, there's low points. There's middle points. That's where we're usually at. Yeah. And that's okay. That's not a bad thing. Um and the two things I would like to end on, unless you have Oh no. So the first one is that there was there's a social media post I just made. It was a video I did on Instagram, and basically I've noticed on like Facebook posts and Instagram posts a lot of these people saying that. Um, this plays into this. So a lot of people have been saying that um, you know, no one ever reaches out to me, so why would I reach out to someone else? Or, you know, I'm struggling and it takes until something goes way wrong for somebody to reach out, right? So I used that story that we shared on, I think actually a couple episodes now, but it's such a powerful one, I'm gonna share it again, hopefully quicker, of the detective who investigated the Golden Gate Bridge suicides. And um, you know, he would investigate a lot of these, and most of them were pretty, you know, textbook examples of when this happens. Yep. Yet there was one special case that he remembered and he shared it. And actually, I've heard that story before you mentioned it, but I'd forgotten about it. I actually talked about that in therapy years ago. Really? Yeah, it was one that my therapist brought up. Um it is it is a mindfuck of a perspective. It is a mind fuck of a perspective. Because here's the thing is that this detective, um, this one particular case, he um, you know, examined the family and everything, and that was all pretty textbook. But what was different is the note.
SPEAKER_05:Um and then but the note itself was textbook because there's always a note.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:You know that people just they you're you're gonna find a note. You know what though, I never left one. But but I don't know. Honestly, those are the ones you know are serious.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. But the ones who don't leave notes are probably the ones who don't want to be safe. Or have no intention or thought that that would be. Yeah, they've they've reached acceptance the wrong way. And that's what I was all three times. Yeah. However, my grandmother did leave one. That gives a perspective. But in this story, interesting. Yeah, she did. I should read it. I think I talked about it on the suicide episode. I read it not too long ago. Um, but um, he talks about this one gentleman left a note and it said, verbatim, I'm on my way to the Golden Gate Bridge. I don't know exactly the vernacular to throw myself off or to whatever it is. My life doesn't really matter. On the, you know, the terms, but he said, if one person acknowledges me on the way there, I will turn right back around. He just needed to be seen. He just needed to be seen. And what did he do? Not a damn person acknowledged that poor guy, and he's now gone. So, the fact of being selfish enough, and I posted this video, and it comes from a place of love and support, and trying to re-adjust people's thinking, is that, yeah, maybe people don't reach out to you all the time. People fucking reach out to you. You know, and it may not, you know, why are why are you expecting people to reach out through fucking Facebook? It's that's not what it's for. We all have friends on Facebook that we don't give two shits about. I do. You guys do. There are maybe ten people on Facebook I give two shits about. Sorry guys.
SPEAKER_05:But I are you that way too? It's hard, it's hard to maintain extended relationships like that. So oh, you're gonna be all diplomatic over there. You're not gonna just say it. Uh probably because I don't talk to anybody on Facebook. Through Facebook.
SPEAKER_03:But that's what I'm saying, though. And I don't mean that. I mean, I love seeing updates of people I was past friends, you know, friends on the past. That's not what I'm saying. You can passively see their business, but not have to interact. I'm not gonna say, but you don't have to interact. That takes effort, that takes energy, that takes time, which hell none of us have. But here's the thing is that simply expecting people to reach out that way, it that's not valuable. But I can say that we have people in our lives that are trying. You're probably not aware of it. Or you're not asking for it.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and the other thing, too, is sometimes the people closest to us we overlook.
SPEAKER_03:Oh god, yes. Here's the thing I don't overlook my parents. I'm fully aware. You fully ignore them, you just ignore them. I try to regulate it.
SPEAKER_05:But that's regulated. Who's being diplomatic now, bitch?
SPEAKER_03:But seriously, like there there are people reaching out that you're not aware of or you're overlooking because of the closeness of that relationship.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But you're also probably not asking for it. To get on Facebook and say that, I guess, in a way you are asking for it, but that's probably not the the the uh venue to go about it. Wouldn't you agree? So what I'm saying is like kindness goes a long way, and simply treating people like fucking people, whether you know them or not.
SPEAKER_05:I hate being a walking hallmark card. Because I'm I'm like, you can't tell that story without telling the ending, the way the detective. Oh, I'm sorry. No, but now you just said something else. Kindness. Okay, the definition of kindness is treating people better than they deserve.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So right there, be kind.
SPEAKER_05:You're you're just gonna you're gonna be kind to you're gonna be nice to someone who you really haven't really considered whether there's value in that exchange or not.
SPEAKER_03:Their value isn't being a human being.
SPEAKER_05:The kindness is that act of like, I don't care if I get it back. I don't care if I'm you know reciprocated in any way. We're selfish human beings. Yeah. But the story, okay, so the guy says, one if one person acknowledges me, I will turn around and come back home. And the the perspective shift is that, you know, to the world, you might just be one person. Oh, sorry, got it, forgot that. But to that one person, you might be mean the world. Exactly. And that's the thing, is like how what? That was very important.
SPEAKER_10:That was very important to add.
SPEAKER_05:No, I I wasn't gonna let it get away. It's one of my favorite perspective shifts, the fact that you know we're better than Kaiser Sose. We may yeah. We minimize what we can do for each other. When it's not that hard. When the reality is, if you just spread a little of that kindness, the difference it makes in people's lives, you may never even know. But who cares? But it does make a difference, you know? And the it is frustrating that there is such an epidemic of suicide, you know, especially you know, not that anyone's suicide is lesser than the others, but the male suicide rate is higher than the other, very high.
SPEAKER_03:And it's only going up.
SPEAKER_05:And it's only getting harder. A big big part of that is because you know, the We have an episode on that. The bullshit story that you have to keep it in. You don't. Especially when it gets to that level, you are not a burden to me. You are a human being.
SPEAKER_03:That's the thing. Like, like you said, if that or like that detective said, if that if someone had just or he said the guy, the person who ended their life that way.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Just one thing. Acknowledgement. Just one. Yeah, just just hey, walk in opposite directions. Hey, how's it going? You know, and and gentlemen, I get it. It's creepy to look too long, so don't look too long.
SPEAKER_03:But make eye contact. You know what that I can take pride in, and a lot of people mention about me, and it is something I take pride in, is your sparkling personality? No. Oh what I do, and honestly, a lot of people make fun of me for it, and I got it from my fucking dad. Is like if if we're walking on the road, if we're just taking a walk around the neighborhood, every car that goes by, hey, oh, a little wave. Every single one. Oh, yeah. Every single car. Yeah. Or like, you know, we're walking in the park. Every fucker who walks by. And it's it's like a compulsion, but it's also a genuine thing.
SPEAKER_05:It's like, hey, okay. But think about it. Like, okay, so you're driving down the road and you got some motorcyclist in front of you, like, goddamn motorcycle, but then another motorcyclist drives the other direction, they wave at each other. They do. It's a community that motorcyclists have. We're all human beings. It's a community. Wave at each other, fuckers. That it is that simple.
SPEAKER_03:It really is that simple. And that's the thing. If somebody had done that just for this this gentleman here, he he'd still be here, most likely. You know what I mean? Like but think about that would have given him a chance.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, his experience in his mind. Yeah, his experience was probably not you know, solely his own. There was probably thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people that felt the same way. And if you think about if if that kindness had been extended in their moment of isolation, they might have been, they might have hit acceptance in the right direction.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:You know? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And there would have been growth from that moment of darkness. And then who knows what they could contribute because nothing to themselves, to this world.
SPEAKER_00:I am unwritten.
SPEAKER_05:I am not gonna sing that song, but it's it's some it's some really good lyrics. Yeah, it is. It really is a well-written song. Thank you, Natasha. What a great song. I don't think so. But that's a God, that's a perfect fit. It's it's really, I mean, I again I don't know the lyrics front and back, but it's such a hopeful song.
SPEAKER_03:I think it's about finding your purpose, is that song, kind of my thought.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I'm we're gonna talk about songs and what they mean. We should probably use that song in there.
SPEAKER_03:No, yeah, that's right. I forgot we were gonna add that segment. So this is literally the ending thought, and it's just boom, an ending thought. So there's not really anything I don't think to expound on this. Yep, it's about to go black, folks. We did that episode. Lights go out. We did that episode on Christianity and religion, and how particularly I struggle to feel comfortable committing to that. One principle, there's a lot of principles in Christianity, and I'm just speaking on Christianity because that's the only one I'm aware of. That's the only one I exposed to exposed to. Yeah. So I'm not, I don't know how others I think they're all equally viable as far as that goes. I just I'm not aware of them, how they work. But Christianity, I think Jesus had so many positive and wonderful teachings, and one of his big ones was love thy neighbor as thyself. And that plays right into this. And I'm not saying, you know, to that level, but all he's saying in that I I feel like, not that I'm I know I'm schizoaffective Jesus, but I'm not I'm not Jesus Christ. You know. But sorry, that was terrible. But like, I think what he's just saying to me is just acknowledge each other as human beings and love each other on the fact that we're human beings just on that fundamental level. Love each other as humans. You don't have to give a shit about people beyond that. You don't have to have relationships with people, but just care that people are human and they have value in life. I like it. So now if we want to end on songs, I would say Burden and Unwritten are pretty damn good ones. I would have to say as well. So Burden by Citizen Soldier is on their newest album, Icarus. Um pretty great, like the title, right?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I highly recommend them as a band, but Burden is a beautiful song and plays perfectly into isolation. And I mean, yeah. If you're struggling, the whole album's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_05:Their whole catalog is fantastic. Yeah. He is really, really good at writing down those feelings. So I will give you a power.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And then Unwritten by Natasha Beddingfield is not exactly about this, you know, verbatim, but it's that it's the hope piece.
SPEAKER_05:The hope, yeah. After you have accepted your isolation and decided, no, I'm gonna use this shit for good. She's frightening. Yep. I'm gonna use this shit for good.
SPEAKER_03:And yeah. And that's the thing. Um, one thing I do love about music often is that we can interpret it in different ways. And I there's certainly tons of songs. Yeah, fair enough. But the fact is, there's plenty of songs that are not about the subject that they're intended to be about that you can apply to yourself. Unwritten would be one. Um, so anyway, I I think that turned out to be pretty pretty good.
SPEAKER_05:Um I mean, who knew Darling Nikki was about a doctor's appointment?
SPEAKER_03:Is that the print song?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I can't remember how that goes. A new girl named Nikki, I guess you could say she was six feet. Met her in a hotel. I guess it wasn't a doctor's office, it was a hotel lobby. Never mind. So I guess that's more of like a you know, traveling salesman song.
SPEAKER_03:I like it. Rock a man's about space. What? Yeah. That's not drugs. I don't give a shit what anybody says. That song is definitely about. Definitely about space. About space. Yeah. I can see it. You know what's brilliant about a lot of his lyrics or lyrics from the fucking 70s is that my god, you could take most songs literally, even though damn near all of them were about drugs. It's kind of crazy. What 70 songs were about drugs? Every song was about drugs. I know. I'm sorry, guys. Oh shit, that was a bad what? I just did on that. That was totally unintentional.
SPEAKER_01:Holy crack.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, well, don't load up to the book. For those who haven't, you know, picked up the video version of this, he just his brains out. So yeah. I had to interpret. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, that's true. You would if we're gonna laugh like that maniacally, we do need to at least connect connect with our listeners.
SPEAKER_02:I really think we're crazy.
SPEAKER_03:So anyway, um defective schizo-effective.
SPEAKER_05:It's late. Nick. Who knew?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Indy Pocket, Tony. So don't look to the bottle, the knife, or the gun, except you, Diddy. You can look to the fucking gun. Oh. We're deleting the message.
SPEAKER_05:Don't look to that gun, you bastard. Just drowning some baby oil. Alright, so don't look to the bottle, the knife, with a shot!
SPEAKER_03:Don't look to the bottle of the knife with a gun. Is baby oil flammable? Yeah. Is that why LA went up? Wouldn't that be hilarious? He was stocking those bottles up to spread around fucking LA. Ooh, okay. We just solved it, guys. No evidence left. Don't look to the baby boil. Baby oil bottle. Okay, we need it in this. Yep. Don't look to the bottle. The knife or the gun. Look to the soul you will become. You matter. You have value. Somebody's out there to help you. Share love. Acknowledge people. Don't be fucking assholes. Be kind. Be kind. Be more kind, my friends. Try to be more kind.
SPEAKER_05:You are not a burden.
SPEAKER_04:You are not a burden.
SPEAKER_01:Such a git song. We're going back to the nandals. Don't touch it. Jeremy Spoon. Okay, touch it. Touch it.
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