Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark-Humor Conversations On Serious Mental Illness & Trauma
If you live with mental illness—or love someone who does—and you’re tired of sugar-coated wellness talk, this show is for you!
"Beat The Mental Health Out Of It!" blends dark humor with real recovery so you feel seen, steadied, and a little lighter. We tell it like it is, so you don’t have to.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) and often joined by co-host Tony Medeiros ("IndyPocket"), this is a brutally honest mental health podcast about what it’s actually like to live with serious mental illness on the schizophrenia spectrum. We talk schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, psychosis, depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, BPD, PTSD, addiction, religious trauma, bad therapy, psych wards, meds, disability, and trying to build a life in a system that isn’t built for us. You’ll get:
– Lived-experience truth from someone who hears voices, dissociates, relapses, parents, plays music, and still shows up.
– Grounded insight from a mental health professional who has sat across from hundreds of clients and worked inside the system.
– Edgy, stigma-smashing, sometimes controversial conversations about mental illness, relationships, family dysfunction, religion, work, creativity, and survival.
– Challenging takeaways and coping ideas you can actually try—along with laughs that punch up, down, left, right… everywhere.
This show is for people juggling therapy, meds, trauma, and everyday chaos who want honest talk, gallows humor, and zero judgment. Whether you’re schizoaffective, living with schizophrenia or psychosis, dealing with PTSD, supporting a loved one, or just trying not to lose your mind, "Beat The Mental Health Out Of It!" gives you language, community, and brutally honest hope.
We’re not your therapists—we’re fellow passengers on “The Struggle Bus,” sharing what we’ve learned the hard way and refusing to suffer in silence.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark-Humor Conversations On Serious Mental Illness & Trauma
Suicide Survival & Recovery | Why You Are NOT A Burden — My Personal Journey
In this heartfelt episode, we delve into suicide survival and recovery, shedding light on passive suicidal ideation and the intricate dance of grief. We aim to debunk the harmful myth that you are 'a burden.' Through a raw, first-person narrative, this candid conversation offers essential coping tools and a beacon of hope, free from glamor and platitudes.
Join me as I recount my personal experiences, including three suicide attempts (two nearly fatal) and the profound impact of my grandmother’s suicide when I was 16. In this episode, we discuss the vital support systems necessary for recovery, feasible safety plans, and how dark humor can serve as a pressure valve in coping with pain.
We cover:
- The headspace leading to suicidal attempts and dismantling the 'burden' narrative
- Understanding passive suicidal ideation and its hidden background noise
- The profound pain of survivorship and grief for those left behind
- Practical, doable safety plans that involve people, places, and actionable steps
- The role of humor in navigating through dark times
If this helped, share it and check on a friend today—then drop a two-line “not a burden” reminder you’d want to hear on our Discord "The Struggle Bus." We'll repeat it back to you! (link below)
Please be advised that this episode includes discussion on sensitive topics related to suicide in graphic detail.
If you’re struggling (U.S.): Call/Text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, 24/7).
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! is a candid mental health podcast with lived experience—schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that fights stigma.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros, ("IndyPocket"), we talk serious mental illness, psych wards, religious trauma, bad therapy, meds, disability, and messy real-world coping.
New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am ET.
Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA
All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI
Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning
Hod and horny suicide. The best kind. Okay. Welcome to an exciting episode of Beat the Mental Health Out of It with your hosts, the Defective Schizo Effective and Indy Pocket. Indie Pocket. Otherwise known as Tony. Damn it, I do always forget that. Just call me defective schizoaffective. Nick doesn't matter. Nick is no more. It's just about Oh no, it's all about the Nick. So Nick. So Tony. I hear we're talking about suicide. We're talking suicide today. And I hear this might be a little more uh Yeah. This is gonna be well, so we did this episode once already. And I listened to huh? Was it just once? This one was once. We've done other ones multiple times. Okay. Alright. Uh this one was just once. And um the first time we did it, it was very light and lots of jokey jokey stuff. Which is mostly how our episodes go. Which, yeah, um, definitely. Um But I think you feel like there's I thought it leaned a little too heavy into that. And I mean, of course, I talked about my attempts and those were I barely got into that quickly in, you know, 15 minutes of me being a jackass to myself, which I still find funny. But that took away from the the idea. And then of course I got to my grandmother and all sorts of stuff. So we're gonna kind of rehash that episode with a bit of a different approach, probably not quite as lighthearted. I don't know if that's gonna bother some of you or if that'll be kind of a nice change on this particular subject, but we're gonna throw it out there and see what happens. So, um, first off, yes, I was gonna start with, you know, I I think I've probably talked about this before, but I want to go a little bit more in depth about it. And there's some things that have come to light even on a past episode that I shared, but I didn't even share that full story. Oh, well so um anyway, enlighten us. We will you will be enlightened.
SPEAKER_04:Tell us a story, Uncle Nick.
SPEAKER_02:Gather around the campfire and sing our campfire song. Our C A M P damn it, I can't remember it. SpongeBob. I don't remember sign line. Yes, this is That's not even it's not even F.
SPEAKER_04:Screaming on all.
SPEAKER_02:So so um Take us there. Yeah, I'd rather not. See? That's where we don't want to go. Well, so um, you know, I I've shared this before, but I want to go into more detail and kind of my perspective on it right now because I'm in a weird place with some of this stuff. Um so as I mentioned before, around age 12 to 13, I attempted suicide three times. The first time I kind of made a concoction, my own special cocktail of um like shower cleaner and um mouthwash, and try not to share that. I I mean you can put the recipe online. How's that? Yeah, I'll share that. Sorry. Too many details, unnecessarily de unnecessary details. Yeah. It's like in Fight Club and they show that you can make uh napalm out of orange juice and something. You know, that was actually a problem. There was a big increase in people making napalm. Well, thank you, David Fentcher.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, when you found out you could use soap to make bombs and stuff. Yeah, it's good stuff. Yeah, why not?
SPEAKER_02:Sure. So there's that tidbit. But um, yeah, so that was the first time. Okay. Um second time um I had my dad had like a pull-up bar exercise center thing, and I tied a shirt and a knot and hung myself from that. I woke up on the floor, so you know, probably would have been at that point. And then um the third time, so this is where I haven't been fully honest with a lot of people, and it the the story hasn't changed, it's just I left out some details. Sounds like you're about to be fully transparent with the people. And honestly, I mean a thousand people. Well, I mean, the thing is is that um it's nothing that I've hidden, it's just I feel like the details kind of important to show the uh the um extremity of it or however the word is. Um anyway, I mentioned, you know, on I believe our last episode where we talked about isolation, about, you know, the song Jeremy. You know, so this was all the same day that this happened. So, you know, I talked about in Jeremy about Jeremy how that song resonated with me so much, and you even revealed to me that it could be taken either way. That it could be that he shot himself in front of his class or that he killed his classmates. Um what's interesting is I think I mentioned, but maybe I didn't, but that it never occurred to me that he was that they were even thinking that it was he was taking out his classmates. I'd always thought, you know, he was taking out himself, which kind of gets to the whole point of sorry, wife is texting. Nothing important. Um nothing pressing.
SPEAKER_04:Um this time. There are there will be other times and it will be pressing. Wives are important. We are not downplaying.
SPEAKER_03:I'm not downplaying.
SPEAKER_04:No.
SPEAKER_03:I've got my phone right here in case there's an emergency.
SPEAKER_04:He loves his wife very much. Very much, yeah, of course. But send your applications to No, I'm just kidding.
SPEAKER_02:Okay to T Dog here. Serious, serious, no. Um so yeah, so what I what I shared before, I mean, it's all true, it's just I left out kind of an important detail. Uh oh. Uh yeah, uh-oh. It's kind of right, actually. Um, so I mentioned, you know, in the last one that I, you know, had a really strong, like inches away from taking my life in front of the whole class. Um in the lunchroom. Like I said, we had a uh our lunchroom at the middle school has like a um stage in it where they do drama. It used to be, I think the gym, if I remember. But they had a stage in there and they did drama. So I was really like, I'd say millimeters close, and I'll explain why. Because um, yeah, I I really was very close to going up there and and to get on stage in front of everybody. And the detail I didn't share is I had the fucking gun in my bag. Yeah. I didn't share that detail. Okay. That was the question in my mind. What the detail was gonna be?
SPEAKER_06:No.
SPEAKER_02:If I had you had the gun to do it. I did. Yeah, I did. Wow. And that's how close I was. Again, it wasn't to hurt anybody else, it was to get me out. I now get the uh millimeter pun. Yeah. There's the humorous, yeah, it was good. Yep. Did I tell you the was it okay, I have to inject humor into this. Did we did you and I joke. We're not doing this episode again. No, no, no. This is I'm not gonna like do a billion of this shit. Okay. But like, did you and I talk about how this is dark, how funny it would be if I got on stage and I did that and the gun just clicked in front of every did you and I joke about that, or was that a different that was guff. Never mind. I feel like that wasn't me. Oh my god. It was so dark, but funny.
SPEAKER_04:Well, okay, so god damn it. Would you would you have been able to sell uh salvage the moment and be like, gotcha?
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's like, you know, they had cops in the school at the time.
SPEAKER_04:So it's like, well, they I mean You might have been like, gotcha, and then they tackle you.
SPEAKER_02:But well, that's my thought. Now they probably would just, you know, shoot me. Well, I would hope they wouldn't shoot you. That's the whole point is not being shot. Well, okay. Protecting others. But yeah, yeah. But anyway, that was just a joke that Duff and I came up with is whatever. Because to give that context, that night is when I attempted my on myself and my dad's car. Um so that's I didn't I don't think I realized that those were back to me. That was that night. Because I had the gun in my bag. I don't know why I didn't go through with it at school. I it wasn't man, I was I mean, I was this close. I had the gun and I had the bag in the lunchroom, like we took our bags a lot to us, so it's and I know you've said that it that you felt so unseen. Right, and that's kind of what I wanted to touch more on, I guess. That's the statement for sure. Right. And it's like why why was that statement necessary, you know, and I I've been kind of pondering. Boy, suicide's been on my mind a lot lately. Um I don't really know what prompted it exactly, but it's just been I mean, it's been rough things familiarly lately. But that's not I'm not, you know, ready to go out there. It's a lot of L's. Is that too many?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, you can make a girl very happy that way, familial, meal belly, but I don't know if I've I've never seen it spelled that way. See, that's why you're out, that's why you're here. Yeah, it's comedic relief. At least right now you certainly are. Okay, so we're struggling with some suicide thoughts, okay?
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, so as I mentioned before, you know, um when I pulled that trigger in my dad's car and it just clicked, you know, that was you know, I'm not a religious person, I don't claim to be. So, but when that happened, I I distinctly I was not like, oh my god, thank god, or anything like that, especially since I'm not religious.
SPEAKER_04:Well before you move too far from that though, uh because it it just hit me when you said it, and I know you've told the story before. But you pulled the fucking trigger. Yeah. That was that was a a period on your life.
SPEAKER_02:What's interesting with that is that my dad happened to have a gun that you could pull the trigger and it would just click. A SIG is the gun.
SPEAKER_06:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And like that's one of the only makes of a handgun that if you pulled the trigger, it would just click if you didn't do it right. I don't know shit about guns. Probably good. Probably good, right? So anyway. Um, yeah, so obviously I was I was ready to go and fully ready to commit. Fully ready. Um, and anyway, when it when it didn't go off and it just clicked, there was no like relief from it. Honest to God, there wasn't. It was more like, well, okay. I guess something wants me here. That was that lackadaisical of a response. But I'm glad that's where you went. Oh, yeah, it's not like I tried again. Because that was also tempting. Because I didn't fucking do it that time. Let me make sure I get it right this time. So, you know, it but that was a sign to me from something that, okay, I guess I'm fucking supposed to be, I don't know. So anyway, didn't obviously attempt again um since. Um I've had definitely different periods of life where I've been pondering it a lot more. Yeah. Um and as I mentioned before, I'm somebody who is passively suicidal. So it means, you know, I'm I'm constantly having kind of intrusive thoughts about killing myself and what the world would be like without me, usually negative towards myself, that the world would be better without me and all that stuff. And that, you know, that takes that my family would be better off, the world, in you know, many different aspects. And I do know that the voices play into that.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, well, I was gonna ask, I mean to try to rationalize yourself out of existence, that that has to be there has to be something really, really like ticking away at you.
SPEAKER_02:Like Well, you know what's interesting, it's not it's not rationalizing yourself out, it's it's rationalizing yourself to stay in existence. Wait, what? It's it's make it's keeping the it's trying to make yourself still believe that you do need to be here. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_04:I guess maybe I'm saying that passive suicide, like passively suicidal thoughts, right, means that you are pondering your own death. Oh, yeah. Now I get that you are combating that with but I do need to be here, and I do and I and I am glad that you have that voice. I'm just saying that I I personally can't I can't empathize. I can imagine, but I can't completely empathize with how hard the mental illness piece must be and how much it plays into that.
SPEAKER_02:It does, and I'm certainly weaker at times than others. I mean, does it get to the point where I'm planning it and all that? No, it doesn't, um, and it hasn't. Um it would be more of like if it was to happen, it'd be on a whim, if it was. If not something I would plan, it'd probably have to be just the right, and then, you know, whatever. Um, but anyway, um what I'm kind of what I wanted to kind of dig into with that is with the passive suicide part, is kind of how that even changes in the way you perceive it as someone who has it. So normally, I mean it's about a lot of times it's about what would everyone else to rationalize, like to rationalize your own existence and be like, no, I need to be here for these reasons. Right. A lot of times it's more about, well, this is what it would do to everyone else. This is how I do benefit people. This is my value, because I don't have any, I don't see any value in myself. My value as a person is based on other people's value of me. And that's how I've always been. He doesn't know what we all know. Uh it's true. I mean, I don't that my my rationalization for not doing that is honestly depending completely on everyone else. I hear you saying that. No, it's true.
SPEAKER_04:I feel I know that's you know, but I I genuinely look forward to the day when the community that we are trying to build here comes together. And not only can they support each other and we support them, but I look forward to you understanding, I think, how special it is that you are able to voice so many of these things so clearly and so just transparently. Um, most people cover it in shame. Whether you can rationalize yourself out of it or not, it's not something that you can normally walk up to anyone and say, hey, guess what? I was seriously thinking about ending my life about 15 minutes ago, but I'm still here. Yay! They're not gonna go, yay! They're gonna go, ha, yay! What the fuck? Right, right. So I I I think I think you were right when you said, hmm, I guess I should be here. I guess there's a reason for me to be here. Right. And it's not just other people. It's you who needs to be here. Because you have a very I think you have a very unique voice that I think will only get stronger over time. At least that's what I hope as this community comes together. So I it will be interesting. Maybe we can revisit an episode later on. Suicide episode six months, a year from now. Suicide episodes suicide episode 30.
SPEAKER_02:I mean it's at the beginning of each episode. Today I'm here with this.
SPEAKER_04:Today in Suicide Corner. Um I mean, I don't want to get too jokey about it. No, but that's see, we can inject. But that's but the but the idea that this will be an evolving topic, I think. And as I think it should. I mean, a lot of these not only just between us, but uh I think community as it evolves, as the community evolves, as the topics evolve, and people weigh in. I mean, that's the part I'm really, really excited about. When I gotta tell you, yeah. When I sit and think about this and what we're trying to accomplish, right? I you know, you obviously you you're you think about the ways it can fail, but I also want to I have very much tried to make myself okay eye on the prize. Like what are we really doing? What are we trying to do? And the idea that because so many of us have different perspectives. Oh yeah, and every perspective is valid. That's the beautiful thing. And those perspectiv the more perspective you have, the bigger the picture, the bigger the global view you have of this topic. And I think as people start to weigh in and as people start to do their own episodes and or responses to us that we can then have a conversation about, I think it really starts to open that topic up and shine light on all corners of it. Absolutely. So that people can not only understand, hey, you don't have to do this, hey, there is a community for you, but you fucking matter too. Like you being part of this community, whether you're, you know, the brainchild of it or somebody halfway across the world who hears a message and somehow feels invigorated to now speak their truth as well. It's like that's the idea.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and that's that's the thing with opening up the dialogue like this. Um what's interesting is I don't struggle to open up about shit. I just don't. You don't. And it's and it's most do. No, I know, but I'm gonna share why I think that is. Do tell us. And I think it's because, as I've said, I feel lesser than a person and I don't have value in myself. Bullshit. Well, that's that's how it not true. Fair enough. But what I'm saying is that I think because I don't have those hindrances, I'll throw shit out there. It's like, there you go. Like, it's painfully honest and painfully real, to the point that I don't know I've heard many people speak about it quite like I do. So it's just like, well, there it is. Take it early.
SPEAKER_04:And and if you haven't seen previous episodes, I literally work in Neuropsyche. So I talk to people who are suicidal every day. Yeah. They do not open up the way you do. No. And and maybe it's just that there is a trust here, but I know you're well aware that there's plenty of things.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I talked to I if anybody wanted to talk about it, I talked to my wife, I talked to my brothers, my friends, like everybody knows. There's nothing hidden with me. I'm a painfully open book. I'm a blunt motherfucker when it comes to this stuff. Bluntly transparent.
SPEAKER_04:It is it is a beautiful thing, I mean, based on what it is we're trying to do. So yeah, based on this.
SPEAKER_02:Please continue. But um, so as I was saying, you know, most of the time it's more about rationalizing, from my perspective, why I should be here for others. But it shifts and it's shifted a lot lately. Um this is where it gets a little darker, but it's more about uh it's hard to fight the idea that you end your own pain. Yeah. That's what I've been struggling with. And like I said, I haven't gotten nothing planned or any intention, but that is how the vibe or whatever of it has changed. Is and that happens. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:More on this end your own pain.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean just what it is. I mean, you I mean, as I mentioned before, this is kind of a bit of a torture every single day to mask, to function, to show love to others, to all that stuff, and then you know, there is something which we mentioned before, there is something, you know, peaceful about the idea of not having to suffer with this anymore. And what's also interesting is I've been dreaming a lot lately. Like have the last two weeks have been so many fucked up dreams. All over the place. Like, and that's fucking with me too. Okay. Um, so you know, it's been, you know, about losing my son, about uh my grandmother who commit suicide, which we'll talk about. Um kind of all over the place. Um, and I've not had a night of peaceful sleep either, so it's just like there's no escape from it right now. Um but you know this yeah, it's just interesting. But um so right now it is it is leaning more towards that vibe rather than the other. But then again, you try to trumpet with the other. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_04:No, describe the other. What does it mean? What do you mean?
SPEAKER_02:That's why I said the other thing is, you know, putting normally the idea of be having the peace doesn't factor in, is what I'm saying. It's just I need to be here for this person, I need to be here for this cause. I need So that is almost always that almost is always the main thing. It doesn't really factor into me most of the time that, oh well, this could injure pain. It's just there's kind of a self-loathing thing with it, too. You know, there's always a self-loathing aspect to it. But okay, but now I would say the ending your own pain idea is completely dominating the reasons for being here. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_04:Ending your own pain is the reason for being here?
SPEAKER_02:No, it's it's dominating the thoughts of well, I need to be here for this reason. The positivity of trying to think, oh, I need to be here for this reason is being overshadowed by the negativity of if I just did this, the pain would stop. Yeah. And that's I mean, I've had that before, but kind of compounded with a lot of things that are going on personally right now. It's been pretty rough. Okay. But um, kind of to get back to the Jeremy thing, it's like I kind of went, you know, my own mind went back to that point. I thought, what the hell point was I trying to make?
SPEAKER_04:And I mean the the the discussion we had before, I don't know that there was a point. It was more of the statement of you will see me.
SPEAKER_02:But I really thought deeper about it. Okay. And I think I realized that actually what it was is that I need to know the fucking pain you all caused me. You need them to know. To know the pain I'm going through. That they caused me. So it is a statement. But it's like, you know, I was bullied a lot, and I again I wasn't seen by a lot of people. I still don't really feel seen by most people, if anybody really. But that was part of it, is that, you know, it's like, this is what y'all putting me through. Plus, you don't respect what I am going through, so I'm gonna show you right here. And that's the statement. So it's a little bit deeper, I guess, than the statement is clearer now to me.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Um, so so there was message involved in it as well. Not just you don't see me, there's you don't see me and you can't see what you've done to me or what you do to me on a daily basis. Right. So I'm gonna put it in your face. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. And as you know, I'm all about in your face with stuff.
SPEAKER_04:But um it can be a little on the nose sometimes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, probably too much, honestly, too fault. Uh oh no, no. I mean, that's perfect for this. Well, yeah, but you know, I often do think about and this is I this is a little bit off topic, but I think it is valid for this, is I do often think about, you know, people get so pissed off at, you know, homosexuals and transgender individuals. Ah, those people. But like, no, no, no. I that see, that's our humor, right? But the thing is, you know, you get so many people like on social media, and even you know, people I know are just talking about, oh, I accept who they are, but I'm just so fucking tired of hearing about it. It's like, I'm like, am I doing the same thing here? It's like, is this the same thing?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, this is well, but do you validate that statement? I'm just so sick of hearing about them. Well, not from my perspective. No, but I mean, if you alright, so let's talk about the since we're using this language, the cis gender, male, female, white, middle America, if I mean if you watch TV that had been force fed to everyone. Right. So is anyone else's agenda any less valid? Because I don't think most white most just normal middle of the road white folks think, wow, we really kind of just force fed our whiteness right the fuck down their throat. I don't think any of us ever really think that way, and I think it's not until people bring things up, and yes, can it get a little ad nauseum at times? Sure. Hearing, oh, it's gay pride month. Well, when do I get white man month? I want my fucking money. Right. But this is the thing. It's like I I think there needs to be space and room for everyone. Right. I think there's a lot of things that we can come together on and accept about ourselves and each other that would make the world a better place. I do I think there will ever be complete harmony? No, because I don't people aren't capable of that anyway. Yeah, and I think there's I think there are too many systems at work that keep us from that separated. But this is not the conspiracy show.
SPEAKER_02:We talk about ancient aliens and conspiracy. Mental illness. So uh what I was gonna say is kind of with that trajectory, is the one thing I like about creating a community is you don't have some idiot like me in your face about it. We can all it's not one so like you know, you get the you get content creators that really and I don't mind saying especially of the LGBTQ I plus. It's hard. I'm sorry, it's not all. But like that community, you get a lot of content creators who are just shoving it down people's throats.
SPEAKER_04:The alphabet gang can be a little loud sometimes.
SPEAKER_02:What I can say though is I'm kind of realizing maybe why, it's because they're kind of on the Jeremy thing. They're not fucking seen, they're not fucking heard. Well, they are seen, but they're not understood, they're not appreciated, they're not respected. And that's why there are people like myself who are like, fuck all of you, I'm gonna throw it in your face about it. But if there was more of an acceptance and more of like a community, or somebody like me or those creators don't have to be the the spearheads for shoving it down people's throats and we can all just talk about it.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and this is I think Does that make sense? Yeah, this is I think the difference with unless I misunderstood our trajectory, um, you know, with some of those creators, the content creators you're referencing, it is a little heavy-handed, and they're not they're not just putting it out there to be seen, they're making fucking sure you see. Right. And that to me, because you're never ever gonna get 100% of the people to quote see. Right. That's fine. Yeah, it's part of why the world will never completely unite. But I think that if you can put a message out there and there are enough people that it resonates with, those people that it resonates with will have enough support around them that those people too will hear the message. Right. Because, you know, I mean, how many times have you put on a song to somebody and said, Yes, that, I feel that. Yeah, yeah. To have that voice speak for you and be maybe in a more generalized way.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:You know, what we're saying here, uh I I think there will be a lot of people that a lot of things are gonna resonate with. Right. Right? But but we're also not sitting here trying to quote research and and keep you know things clean to the show. Yeah, for sure. But it's it's a little more of a human person. It's a yeah, that I mean I I don't want to say Lois Company. Denominator, but it it it's understandable on all levels. It's not like we're trying to be highbrow or ridiculous about anything. I mean, I'm sure there will be some things that we'll end up pulling facts and you know statistics into. But for the most part, this is really conversation about the human experience, the existence piece here. Um I do want to circle back to one thing you said though. Go ahead. Um and I there's a lot more I want to cover. Having not been Okay, this sounds I'm I'm hearing uh responses back like you got on your cancer episode.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, here we go.
SPEAKER_04:Controversy gets uh Okay, so you were there the day I got collabored so fucking hard that I now have PA feedback in my head 24-7. Tonitis, yeah. I have tinnitus, and it is not like a little whisper. It is whisper whisper loud. Yeah. And it is when I when it first happened to me, I started to feel crazy because I could not focus. It gave me insane headaches. It was so distracting, it affected my vision, it affected my thought process, it it literally made my life hell. Because it didn't start right away, but when it did reach its current level, you guys hear that? I do. I don't anyway, I hear other things. But yeah, you hear other things. But to say that that is that's my only experience where I can go, okay, I kinda understand how debilitating the mental illness piece can be, because I had never experienced anything like that. Um, mine is like on you know 0.5 and yours might be on 99.9.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I don't really appreciate people doing that. What? Like, don't gauge levels of severity of suffering. I well that's one thing.
SPEAKER_04:It's not to say that yours is I'm just saying I don't see mine as right debilitating. That's really all I'm saying is that making that comparison, I know mine pales. It is not near the level of the same.
SPEAKER_02:I want everyone to feel like, you know, to to I've always felt like to an individual, their struggles are terrible. Their struggles are paramount.
SPEAKER_04:Now I know you can lean into that and you know No, you're you're right to say that, but understand that again, I'm hearing the the cancer versus schizoaffective uh comments. Yeah, you fucking don't know anything about you're right. I don't know anything about suffering beyond what I have suffered.
SPEAKER_02:You know what though, you can speak on it more than most as far as what I go through because you're fucking around me and talking to me all the time. You know, that is a valid, truly valid perspective on this.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Well, I bring up that perspective to say or to bring back that you mentioned something about you end your own pain. And this is kind of I mean, it it goes into cognitive behavioral therapy, um, which is a big treatment for tinnitus. But you don't even have to necessarily dig into you know CBT to really gain benefit. If and and I'll ask all of you know the listeners as well, ask, ask yourself, do you do you know the difference between your thoughts and the thoughts that get fed to you and the feelings that bring up thoughts that aren't your thoughts but are right? So do you do you understand you are the observer? You are not your body, you are not your brain, you are, and you know, we talked about what's her name, the the human prompter. She she has some wonderful breakdowns on ways to kind of see, you know, your your brain is the the hardware, your mind is the software, right, and you are the observer, right? Which would be, you know, the person at the computer doing all the the keystrokes, but um, or at least observing the keystrokes. Some people aren't in control enough to make keystrokes, right? And this is the thing, it's like you talked about, which is why I dug in when you first said it. You're like, you are ending your pain, and I'm like, yes, go on. Because I think there's a flip side to it, too. You're talking about ending your life to end the pain, but I also think that there's a way, or at least I hope that there is a way, and and I hope maybe even we develop it further to get folks in touch with their soul, their observer, right and that observer can see that this mental illness is happening to me, right, but it is not of me. Well, and yeah, and and thereby that's it. That's exactly what I've never gotten down. Is that exactly? But I think you have more than most, and I think music brought you to that place because remember we talked about how with music and its structure, right, you know, you're able to put canisters and this is this, and this goes here, and this goes here, and you're able to do that separation to the point where you've said that even like when you're playing, yeah, the voices are still happening, obviously, but you're not paying attention to them.
SPEAKER_02:Right, because I mentioned that you know, when I'm doing my covers, I do still notice them, but like I'm so in the moment that they don't bother me at all in those moments. And then when I hit flow state, like we talked, it's completely, I feel like I'm completely asymptomatic.
SPEAKER_04:Free.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And that kind of free of everything is to me is the piece that I got jazzed about when you said you can end your own pain. I think there's a flip side to it, too. Right. Because I while while, yeah, we can this episode can be a little darker, but I really want to inject that hope piece too, because I do think yes, stay on your meds. Oh, yeah. The therapies. You've if you've listened to anything this man has said.
SPEAKER_02:No, my the therapy and the meds are what's getting me through a lot right now, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Always about stay on both. I mean, there's no but that extra step, and I think it's the step that you've taken that's allowed you to live a much better existence than most that I have encountered with that particular diagnosis. Right. Excuse me. Um I think that if and this might be a good thing for, you know, episode two of suicide or episode three or whatever. I really want you to think on that more because I think you, because we've had that conversation that I think you are very special when it comes to this diagnosis. Right. Because I think you've tapped into or figured something out that I've never seen anyone else with that, with any kind of schizotypal diagnosis. I no one has ever manifested what you have and been able to have that kind of separation and that kind of unawareness of I feel like there are times you float above your illness. And and I think that's where I feel like some of your your better ideas and solutions have come from.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And and I think that as we have this conversation, especially as they get more involved, and like I said earlier, when you have these multitude of perspectives, you can put the whole puzzle together. Right. Because it I mean, I don't imagine it's that much different than the damn DNA that holds the key too. Oh, yeah, that holds the key too. Right. It's it's it's all a puzzle. Right. So um I I know that you have a lot more, but I really did want to double back to that before we got too far away from it. I do think you can end your own pain, and it is your choice to use that as you see fit. I just hope that especially anybody who's listening, you understand that there is still a choice that is good too. Yeah. You know, you can end your pain, at least win that battle, you know, the pain of that battle. You're still gonna struggle. We all do. Life life kicks us all in the nuts. Sure. For sure, in a million different ways. Yeah, sure does. Um even literally.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Um, but but I think that there is a flip side to all of it. The duality of life. You know, you can end your pain, yes, but you can also end your pain.
SPEAKER_02:So I don't know, and honestly, I'm glad you brought that up. I really am, and I'm I I do want to inject positivity into this episode, and you're doing a fantastic job of that. Well, I mean, right now, I I I feel inclined to take more of a negative approach to it because no, and just because of my mental state.
SPEAKER_04:But it but I also but I think it's important to get that out there too, because I I'm not gonna stay there, and and we are gonna cover both sides of it. So I want you to continue. That's what I want. I don't want you to be like, I feel shame now because I didn't fuck all that. No, I don't.
SPEAKER_02:That's not what this is about. No, that's why I appreciate this conversation because where I'm at right now, I very much struggle to see an upside or like a way up you know what I'm trying to say, an up or down.
SPEAKER_04:Am I shrinking in the fucking couch? I swear.
SPEAKER_02:I keep sitting up. I keep quit!
SPEAKER_01:I keep fighting.
SPEAKER_02:Quit.
SPEAKER_01:Fucker.
SPEAKER_04:Did the smighty thing in the middle of the street? I'm gonna get started. Hey kids, remember phone books? I'm gonna get some to sit on. Anyway.
SPEAKER_02:I barely remember phone books. Yeah, nobody uses them anymore. Um except short people. So actually, I love that you brought that because that's actually an excellent segue into I love you too, man. Don't tempt me. Don't tempt me. Okay. Not on camera. That happens backstage. Phil!
SPEAKER_00:Carl. I think it's uh Billy T. Billy T. Billy T this week. Billy T. Yeah. His ability.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Back to you. So I think that's back to you, Nick. Thanks, Tom. Tony, right. Right. Umtonio Montana. Nope. I'm not gonna. Nope. Isn't that the most offensive caricature of a Cuban ever recorded? I think Nicolas Cage could have done it better.
SPEAKER_01:Antonio Montana. Hello to my say hello.
SPEAKER_02:See, you've been working on it, you little bastard. You're gonna bear down burden me. Say hello to my little friend.
SPEAKER_04:Um, that one's never gonna work. You gotta work on your walking. No, I think it's funnier that it sucks that bad.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's the great part about sucky impressions. You can tell just enough. Yeah, right. So, now to get back to the dark side. Yes. Um yeah. 66. So, you know, see, now we're now we're doing again. Stupid jokey? No, we we have tapered it down much less this episode, and I wanted to do that. Composure. Um life is dark. Life is hell.
SPEAKER_01:War is hell.
SPEAKER_02:Um, okay. So good, you know, you were talking about you know, your outside perspective on what I'm going through, and I'm sharing exactly what I am going through. Um, so one thing I do think is kind of cool about my perspective on suicide. Okay. About my perspective on suicide is I've been on both sides of it. So I'm somebody who's attempted and passively suicidal and gone you know, really dark places with it, kind of in a weird one with it right now. But you have also But I've also had somebody very close to me who did complete, and I wasn't me. I'm who you talking to? They're listening. Who you nobody's here. They're listening. You're in a padded cell right now, bro. Literally. Oh wow, that was good. That was good. Yeah, man. That was pretty good. That was pretty good. Solid So, okay, so yeah, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go into some detail about that situation. Okay. And like what happened and even the scene itself. And the reason I do that is to illustrate the devastation of it on every fucking level. So, um, spoiler alert. Oh shit, not a spoiler. Jesus. I said spoiler alert. I meant viewer dish.
SPEAKER_04:Spoiler alert.
SPEAKER_03:Spoiler alert!
SPEAKER_04:There will be a casualty at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_02:There's death. Okay, so there's death. It it's there. It's true. Dis- What do you call that? A disclaimer? Uh um viewer discretion? Viewer and listener discretion advice. So we will be getting I will be getting detailed about this whole thing with my grandmother. So boy. I gotta get comfortable. Yeah, you you remember this story. You've heard it a few times. Yes. So um, kind of the background of my grandmother's trajectory into what she did. Um she was somebody who was diagnosed bipolar, and I think another person who wasn't seen a lot, you know. She was actually a very she was a pretty social person. Um, everybody loved her. And um what's interesting is people I think had an expectation of her that she was quote unquote perfect. I used to call her Mary Poppins. She had a very just respectful, was almost commanded respect, but a very, you know, leader, intelligent person, a business woman, which was, you know, great. You know, there's not she was not held back by anything. She's a very tough person, um, at least outwardly. I was gonna say at least her. I think um her mask was kind of thinking about it, especially lately. Her mask was pretty damn strong, I think, until the end, of course. Um although maybe until the end, because honestly, we didn't know fully where she was at.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So, however you want to look at that. But anyway, um, so yeah, diagnosed bipolar, definitely had, you know, some pretty spouts of depression and spouts of happiness as the uh illness, you know, works. Um but basically, you know, about I'd say, and I may have timelines wrong, four, six, eight months before she did it, um, we found out she was she had a stroke and um you know she recovered from it. Um and uh well, recovered physically, we'll put. Right. But not. Um not mentally. And that you know, that's kind of when things started going downhill pretty quick. Um and then we we kind of found out after she passed that there was a good chance she was having um what are the mini strokes called? TIA's?
SPEAKER_06:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, there's a good chance she was probably having those. Um so you know, getting more and more depressed, not wanting to go out and do anything. Um she actually had got to a point where she couldn't swallow. Yep. And um, you know, honestly, the interesting thing with that is it was a mental thing. It was not a physical. She could physically swallow. Sure.
SPEAKER_04:What's interesting is my connection between and there.
SPEAKER_02:Damn it, dude. Oh sorry. No, no, no, that's spot on. That's interesting you say that. Because my dad and I were literally just talking about it the other day. And he said her therapist told him, because she he met with her after it happened just to get, you know, closure, closure. Some understanding. Sure. And um, she said literally that was a manifest a physical manifest of her not being able to swallow what happened to her. Wow. So what's interesting is that um she was someone who was you know made a good living, and in 2008, the financial recession, um her, you know, wealth got hit pretty hard. And she is somebody like my father, which drives me up a fucking wall, is there are people who want to leave a certain amount to their families. Right, right. To a fault. Right. To a point where it has to be this number, I've seen. And you know, that number got very diminished in 2008, and if she had just stuck around, it would have built back up, of course. Right. But in her mental state, she couldn't see that. She couldn't see the hopeful, you know, side of that. So you know, all these things built up.
SPEAKER_04:And um, I mean this is the first time I think I've heard you mention that there was that the market played a role in the I think.
SPEAKER_02:Well that's that's kind of why I want to do it again, too, is I really wanted to share a lot of a lot of perspective different insight about it. So yeah, all that kind of can you know contributed to the trajectory of what happened. And then um, you know, um she was being it ended up where her we had her sister visiting a lot um and you know, to watch her, and then we had her best friend coming over a lot to watch her.
SPEAKER_04:She was still ambulatory and not like she couldn't take care of her sk herself.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, she lived alone. I mean, so she she was She was she was look taking care of herself. Okay. That's the thing. Okay. So I think you know, she was even on to that we were so concerned, which I know being a woman who's lived with you know lived on her own for twenty what, twenty well before I was born. So thirty-five-ish years, thirty-forty years, I mean, she she built a life out of being completely self-reliant and self-sustaining and all that. So I'm sure the fact that everybody was being intrusive trying to help her, which we were, by the way, it's not help, but like in her perspective, it was probably very uncomfortable and very intrusive, and like you guys can fuck off, I've got this, or maybe the other thing could have been I don't want you guys around because I need to do what I'm gonna do. Um yeah, I I don't know. I I really thought about it a lot, trying to understand her perspective even more. And as I told Tony before this episode, I've actually been I visited her grave site, which is not very far from me, and my brother, my twin brother who passed, is buried there, and so is my grandfather. Wow. So there's a lot of conversations going on then. I swear I've kind of talked all three. What's weird is you know, I don't hear back from them, but there is a piece doing that.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'm I'm I'm glad we didn't get to talk about it beforehand because I am interested to hear. As somebody who is not a quote believer, it it tell tell us what the conversations? Well, no, no, you don't have to be specific about the conversations, but do tell us more about how it affects you. Yeah, whether it's helpful, whether it's who cares.
SPEAKER_02:Well, the th I mean the thing is uh I don't know how helpful it is. In fact, I wonder if it didn't do a bit of the opposite in a weird way. Okay. Because it's like, you know, I look at it as if I'm talking to them. Again, I don't hear back and nor do I expect to or anything like that. It's like I'm telling, especially her so to her dead body how much she fucked us all up. Well, you're representing about it.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Your representation in here of what she is to you still. Yeah. But you're saying they don't talk back to you. How do you have a conversation? Are you only?
SPEAKER_02:I guess it's me just barraging the person. So you're really just talking about feelings. Yeah, not just vomiting feelings. You don't vomiting feelings right at right at her grave. Yeah. So you don't say anything like, and you may have and don't even try to Oh no, it's not that. There's no like. No. It's all just So there isn't any response. Hmm. Okay. I don't want a response. I don't there is no response to be had. She's dead. You know, there is no response to be had. You know. From any of them, by the way. But I've talked to Brandon, I've talked to you know, grandpa, when I've especially talked to her. Two. There is no, you know. But anyway, um some people would argue with you that oh, sure, sure. And I as you know, I'm not a believer in religion, or I don't even know how spiritual of a person I am anymore. Trying to figure that out a little bit too, but that's a whole nother thing. Let's not get into that. Uh because I don't want this episode to be eight hours. Eight hours. Yeah, yeah. I understood. So um anyway, you know, um, that was all kind of the trajectory of what happened. And um what is interesting about it too is that A, she wanted to leave a certain amount of money, and of course she was also very depressed, too. You know, it there was kind of the perfect storm to for her to have done what she did. Right. Um but um again, kind of being on I've been on both sides of it, I do also validate her perspective. I do not support, can I just, you know, full disclosure, I don't support suicide. I don't I don't support it for myself. I don't I don't think it's a good idea. I don't want anybody to do that. Because I've been on the side of it where somebody's done it, and it it's a fucking nightmare to your family. Um and the problem with uh suicide, well, there's a lot of problems, a big one is that when that person does that, I had so many amazing times with my grandmother, like a many. And the fact that she did that tarnishes, it tarnishes every bit of it. Yeah. And what's interesting is I was talking to my dad about it, and you know, he said he looked at what she did as a terminal illness. I love that perspective, which I've mentioned. We yeah, we've had that perspective multiple times. It is a I look at mental illness as a possible terminal illness. Right. It is a you know, fight me, it's a cancer that develops beyond remission. Fight me.
SPEAKER_04:Um, you know, so the the beautiful thing I think um you're well aware of what a semicolon means. Uh-huh. Um and and I think it's it's a very underused thing in actual punctuation, but I think the interesting thing is that it can tie two completed sentences together. When's kid fight me uh symical and fuck you. Um wait a minute. This is enough. That was the end, yeah. Uh but no, the idea that you know people talk about, well, you're putting a period at the end of your life. Yes, it is the end of that sentence. But I think the part that a lot of people, I mean, if we're gonna talk symbolically. Uh-huh. Yeah, let's go ahead. The the part that most people don't go far enough with is yes, it is the end of a sentence. It is the end of a life. But they never ever once said that that sentence was the actual end of the paragraph or the end of the story, which is the part I love so much about the semicolon piece. You can say two totally different things. In other words, you can live a completely different life after you have the realization that there is more. There is more for you. You've lived this way for so long, and then you get to that semicolon moment, click, and you really have not turned back since. And you've It's been a struggle not to, but I haven't. Well, it doesn't mean that you I mean, you're you say yourself you're passively suicidal. Every day you ponder your own your own death. It's not like that's gonna go away, right? Like, I can say, well, you know, my whole life people have called me Tony because my name is Anthony. Fuck all that. You're gonna call me Wayne, my middle name. So I'm gonna change, like, I know that's no, that's a good analogy. But but the the point being, you can do that. Like, you can do that with mental illness, you can do it with your name, you can hell, you can even go change your whole name on a birth certain like you can change your gender. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's that's yeah, no, I know. They're getting yeah, and we're not trying to be in that conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Actually, I'm trying to be inclusive, is what I'm trying to do.
SPEAKER_04:No, that's fine to be inclusive. That's not don't it's yeah. I want to stay mostly about something offensive, I'm sorry. No, not at all. No, not at all. But I do want I don't want to dilute the response. I I really I'm not diminishing, sure. Change your gender, change your name, change your hair color, change your eye color, change whatever. Okay. But the idea here with suicide specifically, when you put when you have the semicolon moment, and this is the thing, like I I know, I I have been around it enough, and I have heard you speak about it, and I have heard patients talk about it, and it is it can be all-consuming. But again, I go back to that you can end your own pain. And that semicolon moment, if you become the observer and you realize, yes, my life has been this up to this moment, but I can change that. Right. I can choose I can I can't choose my thoughts. Right. My thoughts are gonna be what they are, yeah. But I can choose the actions, I can choose the thoughts that I validate, I can choose the pieces of me that I want to hold up as pieces of me. And so in in getting to that semicolon moment, I I I think where you were talking about is like you had that moment of clarity in the deepest part of the storm.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And I I think Well, it's like you said that I chose it to be a semicolon because I could have said, Oh, that didn't work, and go again.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. But something spoke to me on such a but what I hear repeatedly from people who have made the semicolon moment happen, yeah, is not only how much they value the life that's after, but the sense of purpose that they find inside that life now. Right, right. When initially they were ready to end it completely. Yeah. There was no purpose, there was no value. Yeah, you're right. But the moment you make that choice, suddenly there is, because you're you can be grateful for the fact that you have any of it. Right. Because you were you weren't gonna have any of it. Right. So um I I just want to keep that omnipresent in the conversations that we have that while you're not gonna you may not be able to get rid of a mental illness, you may not be able to medicate beyond. And and your sometimes medications make you feel worse. Then change the cocktail and mix it up and try and try again. And inside each one of those is that choice to keep going, keep going.
SPEAKER_02:So I I don't no, I I appreciate that, and I'm I'm gonna shit on that just real quick. All right. How do you love it? No, I that's not what it that was that was trying to be funny. But you know, you mentioned that, you know, people who have that semicolon moment are very grateful and all that that they didn't. I have a I have a fight with that. Okay. I do. I fight, honestly, I fight with that constantly. And that's kind of why. I mentioned the graveside thing too is because my brother's there. Right. Right. Right. And he died at birth. Right. And, you know. So even talking at him, however you want to look at it.
SPEAKER_04:To him.
SPEAKER_02:To him. Um, there's a big part of me that's like, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of great things happen to me. You know, met Katie and had Max, which is the you know, light of my life right now. And met me. Well, yeah, of course. I mean, you were you would have been after that and found drummingly excit- I mean, there's a lot of amazing things that have happened.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, amazing experiences. Um and this is gonna sound terrible, but I was talking to him and I'm like, honestly, I I struggle with not feeling like if he could have had a full life and I would have passed and not been and him not be schizophrenic and scary schizoaffective. See, I do that shit too. Everybody knows what schizophrenia is. No one knows what the fuck schizoaffective is ordered. There's not even a hashtag for schizoaffective. On all my videos, I gotta put schizophrenia and bipolar.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe you can make it you can make it a little rainbow hashtag. Or no, I don't know, a little semicolon rainbow.
SPEAKER_02:See, there you go.
SPEAKER_04:We'll just we're combining shit now. Yeah, there it is.
SPEAKER_02:There it is.
SPEAKER_04:I do think we're I remember us talking about the pin though. How the fuck is it?
SPEAKER_02:Black and it's gonna be all like angular and fucked up. Check out our web store as we find it in the struggle bus. Yeah, but like is a conversation actually like I said, I've been there three or four times in the past week or two. Okay. And honestly, I'm having a lot of the same fucking conversations. But like, you know, I'm just like, honestly, if if I could have gone and you could have lived and hopefully not been schizoaffective or anything like that, and then had your own child and wife and all that, and been able to give them life, you know, all that sort of thing. I I do struggle to be like, why wouldn't that be better? But on that, that didn't happen. So it's like there's like the oblig there's almost like the obligation of having to stay too. Um, which again plays into the value that others and like I've mentioned before, which I I think is a great perspective. You know, I told you about how I talked to my mom about it. You know, how, you know, you know, I I can't imagine her their pain, mom and dad both of having uh twins, one passing and then the other one ending up fucked up. So, and then all the sacrifices they've both had to make and where that's put them now, especially my mom, and all that, and of course you talk to them, they don't regret a bit of it. And it's like I don't fucking understand why you wouldn't. But you know, that's that's my problem. But um the interesting thing is that she I told her that, you know. Oh, how did this go? I told you a few times, maybe you can help me clarify it. But it was like I told her that um I almost feel like I should be here. I would be doing you guys an incredible not disservice, it's worse than that, but you know what I'm saying. It would be an offense. It would be a blatant fucking offense if I was to do that because they lost Brandon and they've made so many sacrifices for me to be here and you know all that. So I told her that, and she said, Well, if that is what keeps you here, you can remember that you owe your fucking mom and dad to be here. And not the most enlightened thing to say, but okay. You know what though? I mean, I appreciate that perspective because I Sure, that I think it's actually a really it's something I think about a lot. It's like because I think about my own son and what if I had twins, you know, and all that change, or even him, you know, there's a whole snowball, whatever effect with that. But, you know, I'm not gonna lie and say I don't think about the life he could have had and not been plagued by this fucking thing, and hopefully had a more pleasant life than me, but then there's a whole you know, it's a it's a ebbing, flowing thought process, and right now it's kind of down here. Um But anyway, so that was a bit of a tangent, but probably a good one, I guess. But um so I was sharing kind of the oh, do you want to add something?
SPEAKER_04:Well, uh if you're moving on to a different topic, yes, I do want to put something on the I was gonna add on to the story, but to the no, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Because I was gonna start talking about the actual incident itself.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay. Um, well, real quick then. You know, the the the statement about well then you owe your fucking parents or whatever. I don't remember exactly how you put it, but the the gist of it is, well, you should feel guilty enough not to do that to us. Oh, I know where you're going with that, and I was gonna get to that later, but yeah, let's go and touch on that now. Well and and we don't even need to dig into that statement necessarily, but more that I want to point to I want to go back to Go ahead. The semicolon. Okay. And this is what we I was kind of looking at when I saw the other side of you saying you can end your pain. Right? Because it's that key. You say you can end your pain. Okay. So all of these other things you're still making the decision, but you're almost making it under duress because you f there's this weight added to well, if I do this, so and so. If I do this, so and so.
SPEAKER_02:If I do that, oh it's because I know the effects that my grandmother's had on it.
SPEAKER_04:And and yes, those are real legitimate weights that you are putting on other people, right? Yeah. However, I also know and and I have heard people say it, especially when you I mean you you see it even in movies. People are on their deathbed.
SPEAKER_05:You can go, go to the light. I know you're in pain. Right. I want you to be out of pain. Right. At least you're not feeling pain anymore.
SPEAKER_04:Right? So there's that whole like everything that you say that's like, oh, this weight, oh, it keeps me here because I feel bullshit because we think the same thing the other side of it. Okay, so that's situational. And I'm not trying to offend anyone, but manipulative to to put that on because we then can say, Oh, grandma, grandpa, you go to the light. We don't want you to be in pain. No, because it's the same fucking thing. Because that pain that someone is feeling in that moment of suicide is immense. It is bigger than they have words for, hence the reason they want to fucking end it. You're right. Okay, so getting inside of that, understand that all of that other shit is like it's like putting butter on a burn. It might be like a wives' tail thing that, you know, supposedly work, but in in essence, it does jack shit. It's not really solving that problem. Well, I agree with you. Absolutely. The problem gets solved when you make the decision for yourself.
SPEAKER_02:When you and others around you have to Okay, here's the thing. I'm not in a dark enough place to wear that people making it about them, because we've talked about this. When people make it about them right now, it actually does add a bit of a whatever to it. It's not necessarily a bad thing. However, when someone is to the point where they're almost making plans and they're they're good they're gonna do it, okay? Right, you cannot make it about you to keep them here. Nope. That's where you gotta fuck off with that shit. You cannot do it at that point. They don't give a shit. Okay, I take that back. The guilt you're adding onto them during that time is only going to add to their it's gonna make it easier. Yeah, because you're just adding to their pain, our pain, let's be real. The fact is, when I did it, nobody was aware of how much I was suffering. I mean, they weren't. I mean, that's why the whole thing of doing it in front of the class and all this shit, people weren't aware, so I'm gonna make you fucking be aware. Right? So here's the thing is that if people had added the guilt, you know, I mean, if I had been open about it, probably my parents would have just had me committed right then. Which, you know, that's fair. Probably would, should. But here's the thing. Um, that would have made it worse for me. That would have made the decision easier. You're just adding to the pain at that point. There is a there's like a line. Yeah. And I can't define that line for anybody. I can't even define it for my fucking self. Right. And and there's a point where you can't make it about others. It's about them. You have to see, you have to show us where the value is for us. It's not about, well, if you do this, you're gonna you're gonna kill us. You're gonna make our lives miserable, blah, blah, blah. It's not about that. Yeah. It's sharing what they can find happiness in. That sort of thing. Right. And the escape, not of death, but of the peace they can find in life and things like that. That's how you have to approach it. Is that where you're going with that? Did I take that off the rails?
SPEAKER_04:Uh it's a little uh a little bit in the different direction, but it it was.
SPEAKER_06:I thought that was the important one to throw in there.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, that that's that's very valid, especially coming from someone who has been there. And has both sides, exactly, like you say. Go ahead. Where are you going? Well, just the idea that um I kind of lost a little bit of it.
SPEAKER_02:But you're talking about in the hospital and you know, saying that when we tell people on their deathbed that they can go to flight.
SPEAKER_04:Right. It's like there's I mean, both sides of that are uh it's it's kind of bullshit because we play both sides of that fence. So the only thing that really truly matters in all of that is that you get to that place of understanding the torture and the turmo turmoil that you are going through is just a perspective. It is yes, your life may be in complete and total shambles. You may have fucked up a relationship, you may be destitute and completely without, you know.
SPEAKER_02:True tragedy.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like true tragedy happens in people's lives. What I'm saying is you are more apt to find that semicolon moment if you can step above. And I know that is hard for somebody that that has never experienced that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But but I think it's why you know you're talking about right now you're in a dark place. Well, to reference what we talked about a couple episodes ago, the hero's journey.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:The hero has to be in a dark place. Yeah. Because of what? Growth. Growth. And that's exactly it. Joseph Campbell. Check him out, folks. Um, true wisdom in there. But the idea that you are faced with you are faced with the choice of the period or the semicolon. The period, you're choosing to stay in it. You know, you don't know what happens afterwards. You don't know that you're ending your pain.
SPEAKER_02:And the period also doesn't have to mean death when it comes to the hero's journey. It can be choosing darkness, it can be choosing like light or dark side kind of thing, too.
SPEAKER_04:So long as there's a paragraph that follows it up. True, right, right.
SPEAKER_02:Turn up, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, okay. Yeah, you're right. So what I'm saying is if the period is the end, there's no guarantee. I mean, you don't know what's after. You don't know that you won't continuously be tortured. Yeah, that's true. You don't actually know. So, understanding, and and I'm not even talking about religion. I'm not talking about any faith whatsoever. You don't know what's there. I don't know what's there. You don't know what's there, none of you know what's there. Different religions might feel they know. That is fine. But most religions are gonna tell you that there's something there that's bad.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, for suicide. Waiting for you.
SPEAKER_04:So what I'm saying is because you don't know that, why would you risk it? Why would you choose that over the possibility of growth? And and you know, it it is a struggle. You know, because I like I said, I I talk to these people every day.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And it's always gonna be a sliver. It is never just gonna be the doors fling wide open and suddenly there's sunshine in your life. No. You have to find that tiny little splinter of sunlight. Yeah, and you gotta grab it because that's what's gonna lead you back towards growth. Right. And that semicolon is that fucking little bit of sunshine that you can find. And maybe you don't even label it as sunshine. Maybe you just label it as the only thing that's not black enough that you can see. That's the light in the dark, whatever that is. Yeah, whatever that is for you. Yeah. But that was where I was trying to go with that is that back again to the semicolon moment, right? If if you are not 100% sure. And and I know, yeah, maybe you've been a fuck up to this point, maybe you have screwed it all up, you've lost family, lost you know, your finances, you've committed crimes, destroyed, yeah, like done bad things. You always still have that choice to try to turn that around. So I'll I'll stop blowing sunshine for the moment and let you get back to what you were gonna say. Because I know there's a lot you want to cover, but I do I very much want this community to understand that we have choices to make. Yeah. You know, and and some of you, some of you, and I'm sure somewhere down the line, it will probably cause trouble because we influence somebody in some certain way, because people are always looking for somebody to blame. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But but I hope somewhere in in all of this people realize that that choice is still theirs, and that there are people that genuinely care, and that there are people that are genuinely willing to help. Yeah. So making that oh, that first like Well, here's the thing. I'm so frustrated. I know I I want to I want to be able to fix everyone. And I know I can't. Well, it's impossible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I can I can't even fix my fucking self over here. Here's the thing.
SPEAKER_04:But you haven't stopped trying.
SPEAKER_02:No, I haven't. That is the key. Here's the thing is that with choices, like you said, we have choices we can make. By the way, we have to take accountability for every damn thing we do. So, very small tangent I want to get back because I think this is a very important one, and I'm saying all sorts of shit about it. Well, yeah, is you know, a lot of I've had a certain person in my life who was recently diagnosed bipolar, and this person pretty much blames that diagnosis on all of the BS they do. Okay, they they just found out being diagnosed it, and it's like they do all sorts of things that they they know better. But it's like, oh, I'm bipolar, so I that's why I did it. That's why I did it. Fuck that shit. I'm so tired of it, and I see it all the time. Yeah, I know you're suffering, I'm suffering too. What I like to what I say all the time is I hate to play the schizo-defective schizo defective, fuck the schizo effective card, but here it is. It's like I'm schizoaffective, so I throw it down, and it's like I don't use that to justify bad things. It's justifying moments of weakness, right? But it's not even to justify because I'm still in charge. Here's the thing, like to give an example, um I had this is a while back, a few months ago, I had dinner with my friends at a at a restaurant, and there was a really heat I don't know if I told you about this, there's a really heated conversation that came up.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And I really got mad and I flipped a table on them. I don't. I tell you about that? I don't know. This was a while back. Yeah, and then I I sprinted out, I didn't sprint out, just stormed out of that restaurant. Yeah, poor, poor, uh, I don't remember what that place was called. Poor them. I've not gone back in there. Uh we'll we'll go back and film an episode. Here's a reenactment. But anyway, I did that, and here's the thing is that yes, it was a very heated conversation. It was a very personal one, kind of directed at me, and I did not take it well as I was in not a good mental place. Did that, and then at the time I felt absolutely it was justified and uh they deserve that and all the shit. It was a choice, and it was the wrong fucking choice. Violence is never the answer, kiddos. But seriously, it's not. We have to take accountability, mentally ill or not. I don't give a shit. Take accountability because you can you can accept your limitations, that's different. Accept that you know what? If this conversation is starting to get to that point, get the fuck out of there instead of you know, like get yourself out of those situations. You have the power to do that, um, and you have to have the skills, and you can you can learn them yourself. You can certainly have professionals or friends or whoever help you have coping mechanisms and ways of escape and de-escalating yourself and all that stuff. You have to learn those so you don't get to that point. Yeah, I know those left and right, and I still got to that point, but it was a choice I made, and I look back and I, yeah, I absolutely could have gotten myself out of that. But but that's but that's growth.
SPEAKER_04:Because I'm sure in your younger years you would have still continued to blame that person. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So Right. And like now I'm like, nope, that was on me. Like, yeah, they they were making some very not nice comments, and they deserve to be kind of chastised for that, but not that. Okay? And that wouldn't have been the place to do it anyway. So anyway, what I'm saying is you have to take accountability for things like that. Accept your limitations, know what they are, and do what it takes to I don't know if embrace is the right word, but just own. Own and take the steps. Like if you need to limit yourself on certain things, do that. Get yourself out of situations.
SPEAKER_04:Well, but it's I mean, that's the thing, is and I think you're to I think you if you're not there yet, you're definitely on the doorstep of being able to take a moment like that and grow from it and and learn, okay, so yeah, that was maybe not the right thing to do. But but it it really is in those incremental steps. Like even in that, you're flipping tables and storming out of a restaurant. Did you have have you had a conversation with that person since?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, we're back in friends, dear friends, and all that stuff. That that relationship is completely healed. And that's But I can't I went to them. I mean, it was I went to them and that's and they also tried to come to me, actually. I just wasn't in a place. You know, they came to me throughout the next couple weeks, and I was like, you know, still in that place of fuck you. You did that to me, and I don't give a shit. Took about a month, and I was like, oh shit, I was just as much in the wrong to do that. So yeah, that relationship healed through conversation and through, you know, accepting both sides as being wrong and coming together with that. Um very few things are black and white. I mean, very, if anything, other than people. No, it's meant to be funny. Sorry. But anyway, that's I do want to say that is that we are accountable for everything we do, even if you're mentally ill, you're accountable. Okay? So, you know, you shoot up a fucking school, that's on you too. It's all on you. I mean, you can also choose not to do that. Much like you can choose not to commit suicide. Like, okay, I know that's but it's all together. I mean, your actions are completely on you.
SPEAKER_04:And and I'll say this too. Some people are not gonna be in a place where they can choose not to commit suicide. Right. Some people get overwhelmed by it. But again, why we're building a community like this. You're gonna find people all along the spectrum of the perspective that can help you when you can't. That's what a community is all about. That support system is all about being strong for you when you can't.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and remember what we talked about on that episode we did about men, because we talked about No, tell me.
SPEAKER_04:You don't remember?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, sorry. We haven't released that one yet. It's it's coming soon. Um, coming soon, as men do. Um but in that one we talk about to work synchronizing that. Man, I really wish. Oh. Uh oh, I thought you wanted me to do the orgasm sound. No, you gotta look great.
SPEAKER_04:Sflah. I gotta go a little higher next time.
unknown:Phew.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, wow. Jazz hands. Uh jazz hands. Okay. This is gonna be so much better if you're watching.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you have to watch.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But yeah, in that episode, it was specifically about the struggles of men in society and all that stuff. Yep. We get into the suicide aspect of men, which the the uh percentage of that continues to escalate. Yep. And the whole um genesis of that. Yep! Yep.
SPEAKER_03:What's that from again?
SPEAKER_02:Do it become best friends.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Yep, yep. But yeah, so the whole I the whole thing from that came, I don't remember the channel's name. But they had this video of just everyday men, and they weren't men who committed suicide, but they're men basically just saying that you know nobody gives a shit, and we don't feel comfortable talking about it. Right. Because we're looked at as pussies or, you know, whatever. We're weak if we do that. Here's the thing. I'm not necessarily yeah, in that case, yeah, it's about men, but that's anybody. That's anybody. Yeah. I mean, you have to open up and be willing to let people in and help you.
SPEAKER_04:It does, and that's the other the the other side of that too, is that people you feel so much guilt and even asking for the help. But people want to help. They do. People want to help. If you ask for the help, you make them feel better too.
SPEAKER_02:The very concept of suicide, even to strangers, is a fucked up disturbing one. People who have never attempted or even had anybody who does just objectively know that's the most depressing fucking thing. They all know. We all know. Like, that's so sad. I mean, it's so sad. And that's what's so hard, particularly about suicide, is that you know where somebody had to be to do it.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Especially if that person didn't feel comfortable reaching out, or had nobody to reach out to, or reached out and they were let down because you know, whatever, or made to feel guilty. Or you can't add negativity, or you can't ignore a person. Yeah, so that's why, again, to go back to the community, hopefully, we build awareness around this and develop the conversation amongst you guys, with us, whatever that helps. We're not alone. Fucking men, you're not alone, women, you're not alone. We're all in this. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:And and and all to varying degrees have felt some sense of that dark sorrow. Not wanting to exist. So it's it, you know, even if somebody has never wanted to commit suicide, I can, you know, I No, you go ahead. You have to do that. I I think, you know, because you know, it was uh there was a dark moment where I think I could have, you know, pulled the wheel and hit a concrete wall at 80 and that would have been fine with me. But I, you know, never really ever. You mind describing what caused you to think that, if you don't mind? Well, in general. It was a broken heart.
unknown:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Which is why I wanted you to share that, because that's a very common one.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. But but the idea being even those who haven't seriously considered it and set the plan, and you know, like I'm gonna do this, and you know, even those people who haven't have had enough pain in their life, if they've had any life experience at all, yeah, to at least connect with your humanity. Right.
SPEAKER_02:And and that's and suffering so much that you're just like, uh, I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's happy.
SPEAKER_04:So fuck, you know, you're a pussy, you're weak, you're fuck all that. The thing is, are you human?
SPEAKER_02:Are people comfortable just sharing that they have? You know?
SPEAKER_04:It's like Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, uh unfortunately, I think we're still in a society that people get uncomfortable when you bring it up.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, it's just like mentalness in general or suicide. There's topics that people just like don't want to touch with an eight-foot dick, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Um not too many eight-foot dicks that would want touching me anyway. Um but that's what I'm saying. People don't want to no homo, whatever. I'm just like dicks are fine. Dicks are great. They're amazing. I've I've had a special relationship with one for my entire life. 32 years, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But getting 32 long years.
SPEAKER_04:Oh wow. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Long girthy years. Okay. Boy, I'm a I've been tired than a big dick bat. Are you hungry for eggplant? I am tired than a big dick bat, Tony.
unknown:What?
SPEAKER_02:That's a cow can hang thing. Okay. Have you heard that joke? No. It's like a bad hanging, but his dick is so big that's just he's sleeping and it's constantly he can't get any rest because it's okay. He even says in his stand-up, he's like, I hope that catches on to where, hey uh Bill, how you doing today? Oh man, I I gotta tell you, I'm tired than a big dick bat, and people just bam know what it is. Yeah, we're gonna start it, Kyle. There it is.
SPEAKER_04:But um Yeah, so just being able to connect on that humanity piece. People do want to help, so don't feel like you're burdened.
SPEAKER_02:And like I said, that is just one that everybody, everybody is saddened by. Yeah. I mean, uh God, you hear of it anywhere. The news, the paper, if y'all read the paper, you know, social media, you hear somebody committed suicide, there's an immediate sinking. If you had no connection with that person, there's an immediate sink in your heart for that person. Probably more so than most other things.
SPEAKER_04:And if you're if your immediate response is one of dark humor, you're really just covering pain anyway. So it is still that same response. I'm I mean, we do it quite a bit, actually.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, here's the here's the thing is honestly in my own therapy, I I uh I didn't realize how much I deflected with with humor. Yeah. I love humor, I love comedy, and it's so healing to me. Very much so. But I fucking deflect like a motherfucker with it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, he does. Like majorly. He is like the shields on the uh on the Enterprise. Yeah, that too.
SPEAKER_02:No, I was gonna say Death Star, but those are all man spaceship shields. You really need to develop those. Impervious. But that is the thing, is that yeah. But anyway, that that is a sidetrack.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so you Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:You had lots of topics, so I know. Well, I mean, honestly, I I did want to go into detail about the whole situation with my grandmother's gonna give the full experience. So you get the full weight of it. Yeah, I do. Um, so yeah, I I kind of gave you the the trajectory of what ended up leading her to that point. What I did kind of want to say is that my dad also aspires, that's probably not the right word, agrees with the sentiment of I believe my family is certain, blah blah blah. Dad, if you're watching, fuck you. And the reason I say that, no, I'm serious. Fuck you. Because and I don't know if you're still quite as much on that train, although you touch on it quite a bit still. Here's the thing here's the thing all aboard the kill yourself leaf money train. Um, no, seriously, is that, and this for anybody your life is more valuable than any amount of money. Yeah, so I don't care if you have nothing left if you. Fucking debts to leave. Please don't do that. But like seriously, your life is worth more than any amount of money, material items, even stress or like quote unquote inconvenience, or whatever you want to call it. Yeah. Your life is worth so much more than that. My grandmother left us, left my family, yeah, a decent amount of money. Fuck her money. I don't want it. My dad doesn't want it. Yet, even in himself, he I think has the mentality he wants to leave a certain amount. So we don't care. We want you. By the way, he's you're not suicidal or anything like that. I don't know if. That was meant to be. But like, I'm just saying, never ever do that for the sake of leaving something for your family, because we don't fucking want it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, if anything.
SPEAKER_02:If you're a good family, if you're a loving family, you don't want that.
SPEAKER_04:You want that person's. Yeah. If anything, you'll tarnish the thing you give them anyway.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I gotta well, I haven't done that. I mean You mean tarnish the oh, yeah, I see what you mean. Sorry. I yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because you know what? Yeah, we may have gotten that money or whatever.
SPEAKER_04:But how many times do you utilize that money or think about that money and it's think about what she did to do?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. It's always thankful. Completely I've been able to do this, but you know what? She's fucking dead soon. I'd still rather have my grandmother. Yeah. Yeah. So keep that in mind too.
SPEAKER_04:So I will let you tell the story.
SPEAKER_02:No, I wanted to I wanted to put that in there. Um sorry, Dad. I just want you to know that's didn't mean that whole.
SPEAKER_04:No, I I did, but like I do No, he didn't he didn't mean that at all.
SPEAKER_02:The um And he watches these, so he'll see it. Oh, does he? Yeah, he watches. Hi Dad. Anyway, um, so yeah, to to kind of give so yeah, we shared the trajectory. So here's how the scene played out, act one. Um one thing I have to mention before everything is before like the the two or three days before she did it, her mood perked up. I mean really perked up. Because she knew. Because she knew she was going to be free of everything. And I gotta tell you, I mean, that wasn't I don't think that's how I was when I did it. I think I was just masking so much at that point, and people weren't aware of what I was going through, so I don't, you know, I don't know if anybody would have noticed. Yeah. But the fact is we all knew where she was, and yes, I'd say two to three days before she perked up a lot. So that morning, my mom and I were scheduled to uh go over there and see her and let her dogs out and all that stuff. So she called Is she aware of the schedule of who is coming? Yeah, that's yeah. Oh yeah. No, this this is a pretty fucked up situation. It is. Yuck. Um so she calls our house and I answer the phone. Yeah, it's it's fucked up shit, man. And that's there's a lot of reasons I have troubles letting it go. To do that to your grandchild is pretty fucked up. And and your your daughter-in-law. Because my mom and I found her. So anyway, this is a real realization on film. Yeah, I don't know if you know. That's why I wanted to do this, and I'm in a place where just blah, vomited out. Let's go. Um Let's go. Get my umbrella. So yeah, um, that after that late morning, she called me and she said, Are you guys still coming over at one o'clock? I remember the fucking time. She said, Are you guys still planning on coming over at one? I said, Yeah, we'll be over then. She said, Well, I'll go get ready for you. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, it's fucked up. And uh so, unsuspecting, you know, mom and I go over there probably actually like 1.10 because we're late everywhere. So trying to inject some humor in this. Anyway, we get over there and all of her doors are locked, which is unusual because she usually unlocks the doors before we get there. And she didn't this time. I don't know why she didn't. But anyway, um, we get there and door wasn't locked, and or sorry, door was locked, and we went to her sliding glass window, and her dog, she had two poodles, Czar and Zoe. And those dogs' lives were just as fucking ruined as ours was after that. Czar, he was the most energetic, happy dog. I'm not kidding, full on PTSD, that poor guy. I am not kidding. He never recovered. He was a depressed, just stoic guy after that. And he lived another several years. I mean, it did that to a dog, her dog. And she was a huge dog person. I mean, loved him to death. And Zoe was quite a bit older, and that was, you know, but even she was affected. I mean, animals were devastated by it. Good perspective. Um, and dogs are such freaking emotional creatures. You think a cat would have probably just pissed on the body.
SPEAKER_04:Or chew her face on it.
SPEAKER_02:Or cheot fucking cat.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. But just think about the purity of the relationship with a dog. I mean. Yeah, I wanted to add that in there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Czar's life was ruined. He was never the same. Zoe, it took years, and she honestly ended up getting senile, and I think that's why she got over it, if I'm honest. Not even really gonna be funny, but I think she lost her damn mind so much she forgot it fucking happened.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but anyway, so we got there and the dogs were just ape shit. And um couldn't get the sliding door open, went out to the shed, got her key, got in. Um, I went to the bedroom first, and there she is laying on the floor. Um, like I said, this is where it gets detailed, so you know you can skip ahead if you need to. But I'm just really trying to illustrate how fucked up this whole thing was and how I remember it like it was this morning.
SPEAKER_04:Okay if I snack while you talk.
SPEAKER_02:Please do, that'll make it all better. Crunch, crunch. I'm sorry I couldn't. No, that was pretty like that. Okay, so yeah. Um still fucked up. Okay. So yeah, I went in the house. I I go in the in her room, she's on the floor, and it did not occur to me what actually happened. I didn't see the blood everywhere. I didn't it's crazy. How did I not fucking notice that? I was that unsuspecting that that's what she did. So um, I thought she had a phone in her hand. It was I thought it was our cell phone, it was the fucking gun. It was her gun.
SPEAKER_04:It's possible that you were so shocked by the moment that you were in shock.
SPEAKER_02:That's why you wouldn't have seen any of that. Maybe, but you know how it goes from there. I do. So, yeah, so you know, I see that, and I mom's coming up the stairs. I'm like, mom, she's on the floor, she's on the fucking floor. And then, you know, her and I both go rushing in uh officially, and we go around, and of course, there's she had white carpet. Lovely, and just all plants huge right, huge puol. And um, she was uh had the gun in her hand, realized it. Mom actually kicked it out of her hand to get it away once she realized what it was. Glad the gun didn't go off again. Get one of us. But anyway, um, and then mom literally went to her knees and just started hysterically screaming, just like couldn't meant couldn't create, couldn't form words, nothing. Just like the only thing she could say is screaming, Carol. Just like right at her, Carol, Carol. She was still alive when we got there. And two details I remember distinctly, and this is graphic, is that well, there's three, I guess. She was snoring, like obviously the blood clogging her airways. That was one, two, she was also blowing blood bubbles. Three is where she had shot herself, there was hair on her shoulder. Yeah. No, that I know these are uncomfortable details, and I'm sorry. But imagine fucking seeing that and not being able to unsee it. So, anyway, we get in there and seeing all that, and like I said, mom can't process it, so me being 16. The together guy that you are. I had to be, and I I kind of always had been at that point, so you know, time for Nick to be to be commander again. Um I had I had to call my dad myself, and he was at work, and uh, you know, I I called I called the police first. I didn't call dad first. Uh called the police first and uh then immediately called dad and um uh called him at work and I I honestly don't remember my tone. I can't tell you. What I do remember saying is you know, actually I kind of do, because I was like, Dad, she she shot herself. He's like, What? And I said, Momo, she shot herself in the head, like like that. And he just like, I'm coming home. Like, boom. Dad worked probably 10 to 15 minutes from the house. He got there in probably five. Probably got there in five to seven minutes. And he's he's an old grandpa driver, you know. He's driving at a 70 mile per hour to like 55, you know. That's stretching at 60. But um, yeah, so he gets there with so the ambulance and the police got there first. They got us out of the room, so they could, you know, try to save her and all that. And then, of course, they also do like a little investigation at the time to make sure, you know, you weren't involved in it. Sure. I think mom was hysterical enough. How do you fake that? And the Oscar goes too. Um my God. I'm sorry. But anyway, um, they did that, and then you know, there she was still alive. They had her, you know, something on her face. I think oxygen, I don't know what they had. Probably. They were they had her on a on a journey, taking her out, and this image, and I spare it every time I tell this story because it's such a powerful one, is my dad, she had a really long driveway, so you know, there were police and probably three or four emergency vehicles there. So he was parked halfway down her long driveway. And the image that almost has burned into my head as much as anything, because it's one of the few fucking times in my life I've seen dad truly show a childlike emotion, if that's fair to say, is um he's running up the driveway like just sprinting, like like I can't describe it. Like it's just it yeah, I don't even want to describe just frantically like trying to save the day, but couldn't. And he's a savior kind of guy. He was always the, you know, that's kind of how I picture it, like Superman couldn't get there in time, kind of thing, is the best way I can describe it. So anyway, he comes in the house and they're taking her right out as he gets in. And this is the other thing is I swear to God, and I can't honestly promise this actually happened, but I fucking feel like it's a memory, is they locked eyes. Swear to God they did. And as she was walking out, he was saying, Mom, mom, like a child would say to their mom. I hope you don't mind me sharing this. But like it's the most vulnerable I've ever seen him. Other than when, you know, he talks about my brother passing. But that's the other one. So, yeah. So they were gonna lifeline her to the hospital. Unfortunately, you know, she had a big property, but it was very hilly, so they couldn't bring the they couldn't bring the helicopter in to do it. So they had to the you know, they took her to the hospital, which was probably 15 to 20 minutes away. Um so when she when she was taken, she was still alive. That is an important detail. So dad, of course, drove behind and you know, they haul asked it there, and then um mom and I stayed behind and had to call members of the family. So we called Uncle Mike, we called her sister Jeannie, and we called her friend Phyllis, who were kind of the three, other than me, mom, and dad, who would rotate watching her or whatever. Um, so um did that, and then mom and I hightailed it to the hospital ourselves, and then we got there, and we didn't know what was going on. We go in there, and uh, you know, where's Carol and all this stuff? We go to the room, and my sister-in-law um uh was there and was a nurse at the time. I think she was probably training or something, doesn't really matter, but she was there, and um I saw her in there hugging dad, like hugging each other, and dad was bawling, and so was she, and we get in there, and she, you know, we're like, is she okay? Like, still didn't hit us. And he's like, No, she's gone, like bawling his eyes out, she's gone. And of course, then we all embrace what's interesting. I have never cried about that woman's death. Not even then I didn't. I had to fake the tears.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't I've never cried once over that woman unless it was tears of fucking fury at her. There's never been sadness, I guess. It's always been kind of tears of fury. Even right now, I don't cry about I'm not getting emotional from a sadness point. It's like a fuck you vibe here. And that's important. I share that for a reason. Um, so anyway, she passed, and then of course we go to the room where you know her body is, and that's another moment that dad was again really vulnerable. He's looking at her and he just keeps saying, Mom, goddammit, goddammit, mom. Because if anybody was really trying to save her, it was him. Yeah. And he even got to the you know, years, you know, months later we talked about it, and he would say that I wish I had taken the fucking guns out of that room, out of that house. I wish I'd done that. And honestly, it took me a while before I was comfortable, you know, really having conversations about it. But um I told him, I said, You realize she would have done it a different way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:If somebody's gonna do it, they're you take their guns, it's something else. Yeah. So that doesn't change, you know. But I think that was a point of guilt he had for a while.
SPEAKER_04:Once you once they've made that choice, it's just that's that's the end game.
SPEAKER_02:And once there's she did leave a note, and she wrote she wrote like most of it clearly when she was probably nervous about it, because the writing is very shaky. She wrote one more paragraph, maybe that day, I don't know. Crystal, she had terrible writing, so that's not but like straight, much cleaner, much cleaner writing, which tells me she was like she was resolute at that point. And I read that note again probably about a month ago. Oh wow. And I'm just like, what the fuck, woman? Like, you know, she talks about you know how she loved being a grandmother, and but she mentions verbatim that I wanted to leave a certain amount, and you know, I got hit with the money and all the shit. So that was clearly a huge part of it. And then of course there were other elements of that was the key, those were the key things in it. But anyway, so you know that was that was kind of the whole thing around that. So go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:Well, no, I was gonna ask you, dig more into the not crying tears of sorrow piece. Cause I think that is important. Cause a lot of people, I mean, not every situation is necessarily based around this, but a lot of people that are suicidal, um, you know, they they think that they're going to unburden the people that they leave behind. Right. And I think it's important that people hear the true emotion.
SPEAKER_02:That's exactly why I wanted to share both sides of it. Okay. Is because, yeah, the burden of it is way fucking worse than any burden that person feels in that time. Somebody doing that is a burden every day after they commit that. That's the mental burden. Someone might be a financial burden sometimes, and I don't even like that fucking word.
SPEAKER_04:No, burden a strain.
SPEAKER_02:But I mean financial strain, an emotional if that's a kinder word.
SPEAKER_04:But the reason I brought that word out is because I I hear that word all the time. It is a word attached to suicide.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And and that's well, I mean, the song. I was yep, just about to drop it. I think we mentioned it probably 20 times, but yeah, I'm gonna fucking do it again. Listen to Burden by Citizen Soldier, because the brilliance of that song and why it's so powerful, it starts out from the perspective of the person who wants to commit suicide who feels like the burden. The second verse and the rest of the song is the person on the outside, and honestly, maybe even himself, but I think it's actually meant to be. You are not a burden. You are not a burden, and tells that person why. Oh my god, what a brilliant song.
SPEAKER_04:But keeping that word central to this, the whole point in ending your life is to remove that burden from someone.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Yet you're saying The burden is you are adding you're the burden after you do it.
SPEAKER_04:You say you are adding a lifetime.
SPEAKER_02:You're laughing a lifetime of burden.
SPEAKER_04:So yours was just a burden to you. Like you were carrying this weight that was just valid for you, which is valid. Fine, valid. However, imagine, and these are people that you genuinely care about, right? That burden is now multiplied by every single person that cared about you for the rest of their lives. Yeah. You you are not diminishing or relieving anyone of a burden, you are multiplying that feeling. That's the right way to look about it, yeah. On everyone else. And that's not a reason to stay. That's not a reason to make the choice. No. But I'm trying to get rationalizing the idea to really truly get under the things that we tell ourselves in these moments. It's bullshit to think that, oh, if I kill myself, I'm no longer a burden to anyone else.
SPEAKER_02:And I know that's a common rationalization in that moment. Very common. So I can tell you, even being in a dark place right now and if in there, I have no qualms about saying that logic is shit. There's nothing backing that logic. Nope. So I know in that moment you're not thinking logically, but the fact is, it's the most illogical thing you can fucking say about that. I'm not invalidating your feelings in those moments. I'm just saying, being on both sides of it, it's it's the most burdensome thing you could do is to commit suicide.
SPEAKER_04:But to to piggyback off what you were saying, the feelings valid, that's fine. Yeah. But feelings are not facts. Absolutely. And the fact of the matter is the flawed logic of I am going to relieve everyone of the burden needs to be understood, especially in this community. Right. The one we're building, it needs to be crystal clear that no circumstance represents a situation where you can say, Oh, well, I will, I will relieve them of this burden. Yeah, no, I don't care what the diagnosis is, you're living proof to say that no, she just handed it to everyone else. Yeah, she sure did. And it's time, and honestly, and I thought about this too.
SPEAKER_02:And go back and talk about the good memories now? How do they feel? Oh, it's hard to feel good about those. It's like you don't even I don't even want to give her credit for those good memories. It's like, you know what, we had some great times. Fuck you. You ruined all. Okay? So here's the thing I was gonna say though, is when the Yeah. Sure, I lost my train of thought. Because this was what I want to say. As far as the burden thing goes, the fact is, and here I am just trying to say words to lead to it, and I can't quite find it. Oh well, we'll come back to it. But you know, when she did that. The fact is I understand the dark place she was in. I do. I mean, I really do. Now, when I was attempting, I didn't have fucking money to leave anybody. I didn't have any of that.
SPEAKER_04:Right, so that wasn't really part of the concern.
SPEAKER_02:It wasn't about that, but here's the thing is that I can say that I actually understand the burden, and probably one thing my mother told me, again, because she's so wise about and just blunt about this shit like I am, is that she was like, You think Momo's burden, you think Momo's effect on us was bad. Imagine what yours would do. The other thing with that is I have to say that Momo doing what she did, my grandmother doing what she did, and being someone who has attempted and had moments of considering it on a level since, you know, I that was, you know, 16 years ago. So, you know, that's a long time. But the fact is, is that I can't say that the fact that she did that did not add a very beneficial perspective of oh shit. I actually know what that feels like. And I know you're not you don't want to make it about others and all that, but if you're in at least enough of a enough of a state, because I'm in a weird place right now, but I'm in enough of a of a state and 99% of the time when it comes to that sort of thing, that I'm like, shit. I mean, that's a pretty sobering thought when it comes to this. Is like, yeah. Because I gotta tell you, sixteen that happened 16 years ago. There's not a day that goes by it doesn't hit me. I mean, not a day. Sometimes it's it's a decent amount. You know, it depends. Especially when I'm struggling struggling with my own passive suicide and you know, whatever with that. It's like shit, like every time. And you know, people that's the other thing, is there was a lot of fan there were a lot of family members on her side, you know, that knew she did that. Obviously, everybody did, and there were a lot who didn't understand it. They were very surface level involved with her, they thought they were closer than they were, right? Which is okay, that's fair. That's totally fair. Sure. Like, honest to God, it is. You don't have to have an intimate relationship where you're sharing your suicide with everyone, right? Now, in this like community, it is about that, it's about this sort of thing. This this is different, right? So these are two different entities, but like to be on the outside of it and just be like it blindsided them too, but they didn't even want to understand why was more the vibe of it. It was like, I can't believe she did that. Why would she do that? I I yeah, okay. But the more intimate involved of us, even though we were all kind of blindsided by it, um, you know what's weird is like you look back and it's like I saw it. I saw the trajectory, I saw where this was going, and I knew I should have known it was gonna happen. I know my dad has that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And well, even just your statement about she knew a couple of days before because she completely changed, and she was and she was even clear-minded enough to be like, You guys gonna be here at 1 p.m.? Like, I'll get ready for you. Yeah, and twisted. God, that statement would echo for the rest of my life. Oh, and that I mean, there's a lot of reasons why because dad and I were kind of talking about it the other we had this conversation the other day, and he, you know, he talked, I was like, Yeah, because we haven't talked a lot in depth about it, because I think we're in different mindsets about it. Because, you know, he we were talking, and he said, you know, like I had so many good memories of her, and that didn't taint his memories. Now that's his mom, and you know, they were together.
SPEAKER_04:I was gonna say, I mean, I think the relationship would because the innocence that you still would have had in the relationship, you were still a kid. So literally I mean, and I mean I was a pretty mature 16-year-old. I understand that you're mature, but you had not experienced the world as an adult. No, you're right. So you're right. His experience of the world, and and I mean, I'm sure you've now come to this even yourself. You experience the world and you go to your parents and you go, Wow, you guys were right when you were telling me about it. And so having that relationship of like it comes full circle. So he was able to close that loop, you weren't. Mine never was. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You didn't get that chance. Well, it's interesting. I'm like, when I hit dad's age, am I gonna be able to I don't know. Because I was that age when it happened. So I think that might be a perpetual thing. It won't be close for me.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, you'll never get it.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think I'll ever get that closer.
SPEAKER_04:While you got to that point now in your life, her life isn't here. Yeah, I can't you can't retroactively put it on.
SPEAKER_02:Right. That's what I say. And you know, it's what's interesting is like him and I talking about it, there's not a lot of darkness when he talks about it. I mean, obviously that was terrible for him. It was terrible for all of us. But and I know you just totally explained it, and that I I totally agree, I think that's what it was. But what I can say is like I I think about all the time and effort and all that he put into making sure she was okay, and then she does that again. And just Yeah. And I'm like, how can you not be fucking irate about that on some level? Again, I think he's able to come. And he's also a pretty logical base person. Yeah. You know, him and I talked, and he's heard me mention on this podcast before that I think he's not an overly emotional person, and he's like, Well, I still have emotion. It's not that, it's that he's just he is very logically driven. He's an incredibly kind and a lot of people. Oh, absolutely. I I think he's he's I'm just saying he doesn't let emotion trump logic a lot.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I will say about him. Yeah. Not saying the guy doesn't have incredible feelings and cares because he's one of the most caring motherfuckers ever. Absolutely. He's he's the guy that would give you the shirt off his back. He's probably done it.
SPEAKER_04:Imagine he probably has. But yes, he is very measured and very in control. And and it's interesting, because I before I met him, I did not know that he had worked in mental health. Yeah. So I'm sure a lot of that is where that came from. Yeah. Because I know as I've been in it longer and longer, I'm I'm much more measured in how I express myself. Oh, yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_02:I think you in learning about that profession, you probably can apply some of that to yourself.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, you definitely do.
SPEAKER_02:I was even talking to my therapist a little bit about that. And, you know, I'm, as you know, and I've probably mentioned on here, I'm digging all sorts of psych stuff. I'm digging into, you know, I'm listening a lot to um uh what's Peterson, which you know. Jordan Peterson. I like Jordan Peterson. I I do. He he gets I think he gets into into topics he thinks he knows more about than he does. They're off base. Come at me, Jordan. At times. But like I do think he's got some incredible insight. And then of course, my right now I'm just on a young kick. The shadow self stuff, the the theories about, you know, um things in the universe as far as coincidences and like all this the mental ties we have. I mean, it's so what a brilliant guy. Tune in for those episodes. Yeah, we'll be doing one on the shadow self probably free soon, so be prepared for the controversy. But the guy was way ahead of his the cantrovers. The controversy. The controversy?
SPEAKER_04:K-A-N-T-Kant. He's another never mind.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I thought you were doing like controversy.
SPEAKER_04:No. Maybe. I don't know. I like controversy as much as the next guy. But no, Kant. Kant was a never you just move on. It's I'm blowing this for right now. Please continue.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I've been really uh exploring those guys. But what's interesting. Is the pregnant pause was lovely. She was telling me that, you know, she's been trained in all this and all that. But she kind of mentioned that it's kind of interesting to see people who don't have the quote unquote training. Their perspectives on it are actually really interesting to her. Because they don't have the training or like the the instruction of how to process things.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:When it comes to psych. It's like they kind of tell you, well, this is what that means, or what it could mean, and this is how you approach this particular thing. It's like I don't have that fucking training, I only have this fucked up head of mine. So it's like, this is how I would perceive it. And she's like, oh, that's some really interesting insight. And I think that's interesting. I'm not saying that I think obviously professionals are absolutely needed, and their perspective is incredibly important, but that's kind of what I love about what we're doing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Is um and and part of the reason I'm very jazzed about being involved in this project, and you know, um I don't want to say that therapy doesn't work. I will say that I have had a hard time having others therapise you help me with therapy. And it probably has a lot to do with having the training and having that like I can I could go sound very professional and and quote and all that, and it to me it it sounds pretentious, and I really don't want that to be part of this conversation. So you balance it really well in here, and I like that. I I will continue to do so, and I have loved having the outlet to be able to speak in the in in these terms, but uh fuck I I think we started to mention it earlier, but having you know, she's interested in oh, that's a really interesting perspective. It's why this community could be amazing, like it could be a godsend to so many people. Because just and I and I tell, you know, because I do trainings at um the place that I work, and I tell my my students in those courses like look, don't be upset if what you're doing doesn't reach a certain person. Right. Because not it's not gonna work with every single person. Just like, you know, you and I get along great, but we have that the personalities mix really well, and we have enough overlap with things that we're interested in that we get along great.
SPEAKER_02:Very intimate relationship, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But there are plenty of people that you know I can work with in a professional setting that when they walk out of the room like that fucking blowhard, I can't stand that son of a bitch. Jesus, fuck. Fuck me. Like, you just you don't get along on a personal level. And a lot of times, I mean, at work a lot of times because you're fucking lazy and you don't do your job, but there are plenty of times Hand people who work with him. You know who you are. You know who you are. Carl. Carl, yep, it rhymes with, but anyway, um a little bit, it's kind of similar, the one I'm thinking of. Anyway, but you don't know her. Yep. You don't know her. I don't know. Um and he did use, he used to work with me as well. He did um for four months, but yeah. Developed a heart murmur at that worst hell of your life. I developed a heart murmur at that job. Massive depression.
SPEAKER_02:No, well, see, I'm depressed. Credit to Sean Coss. We're gonna try to get him on this podcast. Look him up. At any means necessary. Check him out. Please. I did want to drop that because this shirt's fucking amazing.
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah, that's cool. I'm depressed! Yeah! I would love to have one of those, actually. I got one. Yeah, my size? I got a 3X. What do you wear? Uh this is a 4X, but it's small, obviously. It's medium. I like them tight. No. Um can you wear a loose one for now? Yeah, I'd wear whatever. But I think it would be fun to wear on my uh uh casual Fridays.
SPEAKER_01:You know what's funny is when I walk with a dress.
SPEAKER_02:No, it's really funny. I mean, this is a bit of a fucked up image. I love it. But here's the thing, though, is I even thought about like walking into my therapy sessions, like into that building with it. I'm like, who am I gonna fucking trigger with this shit? Like, might have sense of you know, I don't know. Yeah, might as well be careful because you work, you know.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but the um I I think in telling those students, like, don't worry, there'll be somebody else that can reach that person. It's exactly why this community needs to exist. And, you know, I we're not we're just barely getting started and everything, but honestly, it I I know I sort of haphazardly threw out that, oh, you know, we could franchise it, and you know, not like sell franchises, but the idea that people start talking. When you start talking and you have the conversation, you are essentially shining a light in the dark corners. Yeah. And that is what this is all about. Yeah. And I really hope a lot of people get on board with it because it's so fucked up that we're all running around fucking clueless about this.
SPEAKER_02:Showing each other and ourselves and not talking about it and pretending like we know and pretending like we understand, feeling like it doesn't exist. A PhD doesn't make you know. Fuck those people. That's the interesting thing about psychology to me. I I mean, yeah, of course the schooling's important, very important. But I think a person kind of has to understand themselves above all.
SPEAKER_04:You or at least be helped to get there. You're a shitty caretaker. I don't care if it's even just psych. You are a shitty caretaker. You, you're a fucking shitty caretaker if you don't understand yourself. If you push that off, trust me, you are putting so many things on your patients that are not their fucking fault. And you're not even aware of it, probably. Not aware of it at all. That's why it's accountability. And it goes back to the observer. Uh-huh. You have to have that self-awareness to know where you really are. You know, people talk about where's the soul? Is it in the head? Is it in the heart? Isn't it? No. Where are you? Where are you? When you when you close your eyes and you think, God, where am I in this body? Where are you? Only you know. But you should fucking know. And you should hold yourself accountable, as this man has said, for the things that you and your dumbass meat suit do. So have the awareness. Yeah, yeah. And we're gonna solve a lot more problems.
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, yeah, like one of the biggest struggles for me right now, which has honestly been very eye-opening, is how fucking self-aware I am right now.
SPEAKER_04:I struggle with the eye-opening.
SPEAKER_02:You do look like you're high all the damn time.
SPEAKER_04:I do look high all the time, don't you?
SPEAKER_02:Especially when you do that smell like that. It works. I'm not high at all.
SPEAKER_05:I wish I wish I was.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, the shitty thing is, is I mean. Have you had people say that? Probably what, that I'm high? Oh fuck all the time. All the time. I get pulled over, stone sober. No way. They'll be like, I'm gonna need you to step out of the car. I've done so many field sobriety tests. I didn't know that. Oh, it's a fucking riot. I'm like, what would you like me to do first, officer? You don't do that, do you? No, I don't do that part. Because usually at that point, I'm like, yes, sir, no, sir. What the fuck? Can I go home, sir? Um now I fucking lost my train of thought on what I was gonna say. Was it important or funny? Uh probably both of us. I don't know. I don't know. What were we talking about before? Talking about how high you look. Oh, how high. No, this is not important at all, but it's uh the transparency piece to this. I did. I um well, there was a couple well one time my parents thought that it would help my tinnitus, so they sent me packets of gummies. Oh, of pot gummies? Yeah, and I I did the research, and like, you know, 25 milligrams would be a good starting dose. I took 25 milligrams. I called my parents in a panic, but that's not the one I want to talk about because I was so fucking high. I didn't know, like, I was like literally, Mom, Dad, I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do. Like my voice just kept getting higher, and they're like, you need to just go to bed. Um does that mean they've been taking gummies, like, oh, sweetheart. I don't know. That's that's pussy dosing. I I leave it, I'll leave that shit alone. I don't want to know if they're swingers. I don't know if they I don't know. I don't want to know anything. I just hope they're having a great time in their retirement. But I do they have to be doing that if they're fucking sending you go to. I hope they're having a good time. But uh, yeah, no. Somebody else gave me, it was a um uh what is that? Cinnamon toast crunch. They make Cinnamon Toast Crunch bars, right?
SPEAKER_02:I know so much about the other world, the dark web world.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I don't know that this is dark web shit, but I literally I thought, how bad can it be? Um I took two bites. I think one bite would have been a mistake, but two bites was the end of the fucking world. I can't be stoned because I'm so out of control, it freaks me the fuck out. So I don't get high. But I look high all the time. It's funny.
SPEAKER_02:You know what's funny is you could play into that. You ever do that? I mean, I know you said it like when the cops, but like you ever like somebody says you look high and just like it. I'm a musician, of course. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It gives you street cred to be high as a musician. Yeah. What the fuck? But it freaks me out too much, so yeah, I don't get high. Barely drink. I like control. Don't get high on your own supply. I like control. Anyway, so we were talking about what? Suicide.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Um, honestly, I don't know that I have much more to add to this one. No? I'm a little mentally exhausted.
SPEAKER_05:Um okay.
SPEAKER_02:Let's what you have more? No. Like we keep down? No. Like, we keep all night on suicide.
SPEAKER_04:I don't think we need to do that. Um, but you know. Jeremy spoke.
SPEAKER_01:I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Why would you be sorry?
SPEAKER_04:Beautiful. You have a beautiful singing voice.
SPEAKER_01:Jeremy. Spoke in class today.
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:He hit me with a surprise left. Dropped wide open. How the f can I forget? Wow.
SPEAKER_04:Uh I I like your choices there as an actor. It's cage, it's always cage. Alright, so um, how do you like to end these episodes, sir? With a song.
unknown:Oh.
SPEAKER_02:Hello, my baby. Hello, Mohammed Honey, hello, Maract time beers. Yeah. Yeah. I love adding cuss words to songs that don't have them. Yeah. I also like not reading children's books to my son, but to myself. I love reading children's books and just have you seen the adult children's books out there. There's uh Go the Fuck to Sleep is one of my favorites.
SPEAKER_04:Oh god, there's um I can't remember any of them, but they're all there are a bunch of them that are just like full-on sexual innuendo.
SPEAKER_02:Well, half of the real ones are legit ones that have that. That's the joke. But honestly, I thought about doing like shorts. Actually, Katie recommended I do this, or at least thought it was a good idea. I can't say she recommended it, but I came up with it. She's gonna be funny. So I'm gonna say you recommended it. It's your fault. It's all I care.
SPEAKER_00:Is that I like do like welcome children.
SPEAKER_02:Here's and then you know, zoom in like that, and then it's me reading children's books, but like adding curse words and expletives, and I thought that'd be funny. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Cool. Yeah, love it.
SPEAKER_04:Pete the cat. Uh I just gotta say. The Giving Tree. Fuck that book. I hope you don't like that book? No, fuck that book.
SPEAKER_02:That Pete. Did you know Michelle Silverstein did a Playboy book?
SPEAKER_05:What?
SPEAKER_02:I have it. What? It's very rare.
SPEAKER_05:What?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. He did a Playboy illustration book. It's fucking great.
SPEAKER_04:I need to.
SPEAKER_02:There's also Uncle Shelby's ABC's.
SPEAKER_04:Also a great one. I want to see that. No, that's some pretty terrible things. No, that tree. Is a bitch? No. The boy's a bitch. The boy is a motherfucking cunt. Yeah. You can't! Like, here, boy, all I am is but a stump. You may sit upon me with your weary bones. Fuck you, get off me. You literally took all of my life.
SPEAKER_02:What is the point of that?
SPEAKER_04:What what is that book?
SPEAKER_02:It's a horrible book and people love it. I mean, it's it's it's sweet. I don't know what's it's a horrible book. Yeah, I'm trying to think back on it. I used to read it a lot.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god. Let's do a let's do a fucking episode on some of the fucked up things.
SPEAKER_02:This is that book, apparently.
SPEAKER_04:Well, that well, how about uh what um Wild Where are the Wild things? Ring Around the Rosie. Oh, everybody knows that one. Yeah, but the ideas like all these things persist. Rockabi baby.
SPEAKER_07:The cradle If you see a hearse go by, you will be the next to die to wrap you up in a bloody sheet. No, don't know that one?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but like that's obvious what that's about.
SPEAKER_04:No, but that's the thing. There's no like singing all yeah, but kids don't know the depth of what they're actually singing.
SPEAKER_02:You know what they also don't know about? What's you gonna do with all that junk? All that junk inside your- Come on, kids were singing that. I'm gonna get get. That won the Oscar that year. Excuse me? Didn't that win the Oscar for Best Song or something? Because that was in Do they give Oscars for best songs?
unknown:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Was it in a movie? Yeah, I think it was in I don't know. I think it was in Crash or something. Oh wow. I feel like that was the song. Wow.
SPEAKER_04:What are y'all gonna do with that? Some of these some of these facts of life make you want to commit suicide. They sure do.
SPEAKER_02:Fuck all life's troubles. It's the idea that The Giving Tree's a shitty ass book.
SPEAKER_04:And the Spice Girls won an Oscar. That's not the Spice Girls. That's um piece. I'm thinking, yep.
SPEAKER_02:They did um My bad. I'm thinking of it.
SPEAKER_03:Do you want to be my lover?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You gotta get with my friends.
SPEAKER_04:What do you want? Tell me what they want. You know what's funny in that song?
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna lose it. She is telling you what she wants in that song. Yeah. If you want to be my lover, you gotta go with my friends. But everybody says the joke behind that is like the emory. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. I'm okay with that. But that's funny. Oh my god. This episode. Okay, you know what? We're not I know we got funny. But at least we saved it for after the Yeah. You can cut all this. One more tidbit one more tidbit on the song, since we're not taking that seriously. Okay. You know I could do anything for love? That song by Meatloaf?
SPEAKER_05:Do everything for love?
SPEAKER_02:Do that. What is that? That's the joke. He didn't mean it like that. Everyone who listened to it took it like that and he ran with it. Because the whole thing, he's like, I run right up to hell, but he said I don't think Meatloaf ever ran, though.
SPEAKER_04:I love Meatloaf. He's dead.
SPEAKER_02:He's very dead.
SPEAKER_04:But in his girl, or whoever was in all with cooks. He has a name. So. Robert Paulson.
SPEAKER_02:You know in all the video games I play, my name is Robert Paulson. I love that. So it's not your life. I love that for you. If you're looking online and you're talking about it, my gamertag is schizotypo wacko. Wow. That's my gamer tag. Schizotype Wacko. Yeah. But like in games where you enter your character's name, it's always Robert Paulson. So just in case in the game, I just pray. What's your name, sir? Fucking Robert Paulson. Hey. His name is Robson. His name? What's his name? His name is Robert Paulson. Anyway, on I Could Do Anything for Love, he talks about how um I'll never lie to you and that's I'll never lie to you, and that's a fact. But I won't do that. He's talking about the things he says in the verse. Like, there's a thing. He says that. I'm gonna have to go do some lyric check.
SPEAKER_04:It's true. No, I just I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Like meatlove himself, the meat. The meat. His loaf of meat. Literally said that. Cool. What the hell is his real name? All I know is probably. Whatever woman is in all those songs with him, they have the most dramatic but passionate love for each other. That's great. Yep. It's amazing. I feel like you're right in this episode. I don't know. Where are we on? I thought that's what we were doing. Well, I was gonna talk about more PS songs. No, I'm just kidding. Alright, guys. Hopefully that wasn't too whatever. Anticlimactic at the end. No, that was that was the climax. That was the climax. That was, you know, you had the high of the suicide, and now we're we're bringing it back down.
SPEAKER_04:What you gonna do with all this suicide information?
SPEAKER_02:All this no. What you're gonna do being so fucked up. So fucked up with all that chance. So be a cuck. I don't know. I got nothing. Oh wow. I got nothing. I don't know. I'm tired. So um seriously, hopefully that was a beneficial episode. I know we kind of went all over the place with it, but I think hopefully both perspectives of mine and then Tony bringing some light to it. And hopefully, above all, above all, I understand that suicide is never the right option, ever. We all have lives to live and value that we have in ourselves, but also that we can provide others, however, you need to justify that to yourselves to keep pressing on. But just remember that it's never the right thing to do. Like he said, it it's a semicolon moment. And I never like saying it was a period, it's an exclamation point.
SPEAKER_04:When somebody because it's that much but the part that sucks about that, and and and I think this is a a great way to bring this to a close.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:A period is monthly and it's a nightmare for everybody, and we want to kill ourselves and so on. Wow.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so uh yeah, no, that that was actually quite yeah, spot yep, spot on. Um but no, a period, especially if if the sentence didn't finish the story, a period leaves something. There's still more to it. But if you tell a I don't care how you end a story or don't end a story, if you put an exclamation point on it, it's just fucking over. Like like I meant that shit. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly. But there's finality in that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Would you say that your grandmother's death gave you anything final? It it it's lingered. It's been part of every day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So it's almost like gosh, how would you put that? It's not a period or an exclamation point, it's uh Points of ellipse.
SPEAKER_04:Dot dot dot. It's a con there's points of ellipses. Yeah, points of ellipse.
SPEAKER_02:Not lips. And then you lick your lips. Ellipse.
SPEAKER_04:That's for you, we just turned into an ASMR. And so I cradle the balls, yeah, and lick the gravity. No, no! No, no, no. Points of ellipse, meaning it's an unfinished statement. Right. Yeah. So maybe there's a lot in my writing. You too. And I often start the next piece.
SPEAKER_02:Lock it down. Break the pickle. Pickle ticket.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, God. Get out of my belly button.
SPEAKER_02:That's for Max. There's a story behind that. But it's not for this, it's not for the internet.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, now you make it sound like it is. It's actually a perfectly innocent thing. My son gets a kick out of putting his fingers in my belly button. And Tony turned it into something.
SPEAKER_04:He gets a kick out of him doing it too. What tickles?
SPEAKER_02:And my belly button's so deep he can get his whole little finger in there.
SPEAKER_04:Oh boy.
SPEAKER_02:I just wanted to finally explain the f I don't even understand why you're making that sound. Nobody's gonna be doing that to that story. Oh no. I hope not. Okay. That should not be a fetish. No.
SPEAKER_04:Never.
SPEAKER_02:Men let your wives finger the belly button.
SPEAKER_04:So we were saying suicide.
SPEAKER_02:We were actually we were gonna. Yeah. I'd rather talk about suicide than that. Yeah. Okay, seriously. Um hopefully that helps you guys. Please write in. Let's start this community. I need to get my ass together and get the struggle bus discord going. Yes. I'm having a little troubles knowing how to start that. Uh I'm not very good with social bitchery stuff. Social media. I'm not great with that. Uh, but I'm I'm working on that because I do want to get that started to actually start conversation. Um I know it's hard to comment on people do comment a little bit on Spotify and stuff for things, but that's not where you start a conversation. So I'll get the Discord going, and honestly, I will do a separate post, not a podcast, but just like a couple posts saying that hey, this is out there. Get the fuck on it. Um join us on there. Yes. Let's destigmatize mental illness and everything around it, mental health. And just know that we all have value, we're all worth it. Don't look to the bottle, the knife, or the gun. Look to the soul you'll become. And don't kill yourselves. Like, seriously. Don't do it. Don't work too hard either. Yeah, live life. Live, love, laugh. Play. Make sex, not war. Oh, yes. Anyway. Back to the book. Thanks for watching, guys. This is the defective schizo effective or Nick. This is Indy Pocket.
SPEAKER_04:Or Tony.
SPEAKER_02:And we will uh do another episode um sooner.
SPEAKER_07:And remember, we're coming for you. It's okay, we're coming for you.
SPEAKER_04:To be dip he's dip dip dip depressed. Yes. There he is. He's very depressed. Who is that again? No.
SPEAKER_02:We'll have your stuff. Hugs and cancer.
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