Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark-Humor Conversations On Serious Mental Illness & Trauma
If you live with mental illness—or love someone who does—and you’re tired of sugar-coated wellness talk, this show is for you!
"Beat The Mental Health Out Of It!" blends dark humor with real recovery so you feel seen, steadied, and a little lighter. We tell it like it is, so you don’t have to.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) and often joined by co-host Tony Medeiros ("IndyPocket"), this is a brutally honest mental health podcast about what it’s actually like to live with serious mental illness on the schizophrenia spectrum. We talk schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, psychosis, depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, BPD, PTSD, addiction, religious trauma, bad therapy, psych wards, meds, disability, and trying to build a life in a system that isn’t built for us. You’ll get:
– Lived-experience truth from someone who hears voices, dissociates, relapses, parents, plays music, and still shows up.
– Grounded insight from a mental health professional who has sat across from hundreds of clients and worked inside the system.
– Edgy, stigma-smashing, sometimes controversial conversations about mental illness, relationships, family dysfunction, religion, work, creativity, and survival.
– Challenging takeaways and coping ideas you can actually try—along with laughs that punch up, down, left, right… everywhere.
This show is for people juggling therapy, meds, trauma, and everyday chaos who want honest talk, gallows humor, and zero judgment. Whether you’re schizoaffective, living with schizophrenia or psychosis, dealing with PTSD, supporting a loved one, or just trying not to lose your mind, "Beat The Mental Health Out Of It!" gives you language, community, and brutally honest hope.
We’re not your therapists—we’re fellow passengers on “The Struggle Bus,” sharing what we’ve learned the hard way and refusing to suffer in silence.
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! | Dark-Humor Conversations On Serious Mental Illness & Trauma
Faith, Religion & Mental Health | Finding Spirituality Without Judgment
Explore the intersection of faith and mental health in this candid episode, where we discuss how to build a personal spiritual path that honors your journey without the constraints of judgment or societal expectations.
From examining the balance of faith versus performance to cultivating a community without conformity, we dive deep into practices that genuinely support your mental health.
Join us for a lively conversation about embracing doubt, humor, and honesty in your spiritual life.
We cover the evolving nature of faith as a personal practice, the struggle between control and growth, and the importance of holding space for mystery instead of clinging to certainty.
Get ready to leap into real-life faith that's messy, authentic, and free from performative aspects.
Write the most honest belief you hold today and one small practice that supports it—share both on our Discord "The Struggle Bus." We promise not to judge you... UNLIKE like the others! (link below)
Beat The Mental Health Out Of It! is a candid mental health podcast with lived experience—schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia spectrum psychosis, BPD, PTSD, trauma recovery, coping skills, and dark humor that fights stigma.
Hosted by Nicholas Wichman (“The DEFECTIVE Schizoaffective”) with frequent co-host Tony Medeiros, ("IndyPocket"), we talk serious mental illness, psych wards, religious trauma, bad therapy, meds, disability, and messy real-world coping.
New episodes drop every other Monday at 6am ET.
Want community and support? Join our Discord, “The Struggle Bus”: https://discord.gg/emFXKuWKNA
All links (TikTok, YouTube, Streaming, etc.): https://linktr.ee/BTMHOOI
Podcast cover art by Ryan Manning
Hey. So this is We're actually filming again. We are. We're back. This is a quick precursor to this episode. Wanted to offer a little um intro before we get into it. So I'd say about one and a half to two months ago, Tony and I did an episode about Christianity.
SPEAKER_02:On on the premise that we were doing a movie review.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, we reviewed the movie Mother. Great.
SPEAKER_02:A great movie, by the way.
SPEAKER_03:Darren Ernowsky directed it. Great movie, no matter where your your uh allegiances a lot of challenging questions. So it is a visual masterpiece. Absolutely. I love it. Uh still love the movie. Always will. Either way, we cut we ended up talking about Christianity after watching that film. We did. Didn't we? We we did. We boy we did. Listen, that's been about a month and a half, two months ago, and I have settled down. Maybe it was three months ago. I don't know. Doesn't matter. It was a long time ago, and it was in during a period where I was irate about a lot of things, including religions. Yep. Things have happened in my life that have settled me down, humbled me, calmed me down a lot, and I have a bit of a different perspective. I'm kidding. So blackface. Yep. Sorry, that is not what I mean. Nope. Damn it. I didn't mean to say that. Good lord. Off to a good start. Anyway, so this is just a little precursor to say that we recorded an episode. It came off extremely heated, borderline, not borderline offensive, just purely digging at Christianity from a almost a hateful perspective, and I don't mind saying that. So, what we're gonna do here is this is the intro to it. I'm going to end up cutting some snippets from that first episode, maybe six, eight, ten of them. And you're gonna see where I was at. It's gonna be cringe, it's gonna be difficult to listen to, but know that there has been growth since then. I'm not a born-again Christian or anything. I'm not identifying as Christian at this time. But there's been growth, there's been soul searching Christian pronouns. Is that a thing? I don't think so. Oh well, that's coming.
SPEAKER_02:We could try it. It's coming.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that was good. Anyway, so I just wanted to say I'm gonna air I'm gonna in this episode, I'm gonna put those snippets first. Okay, and then I'm going to we're gonna redo an entire episode on it from a completely calm. Do we do calm? I'm gonna try. It's kind of gonna occur.
SPEAKER_02:It's not really on brand, man. Come on. I'll believe it when I see it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, fair enough. Anyway, this is gonna be the episode. We're gonna roll intro, play those clips, and then we'll start this up. So stay tuned. Stay tuned. Give it a chance. You're gonna hear the offensive shit first. But you need to get through that to get to the growth.
SPEAKER_02:But also understand there may still be some people that resonate with that too.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. And by the way, a lot of the things I shared in the first episode, I still feel. I still have those opinions and thoughts and struggles and all of that. Those are still there, but it's gonna come out differently. And I that's why I wanted to redo this.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Enjoy the cringe.
SPEAKER_03:Enjoy the cringe first. Then party time. It's Sunday. It's Sunday. You know what that means. What does that mean? Time to shit on religion. All right, let's go.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Um don't be offended. And I'm gonna do my best legitimately not to make this a rant, which is going to be difficult for me because I'm in rant mode these days. It's all about just getting shit, vomiting it out. It's true. Oh, yeah. I get to hear it. You get to hear it, and so does my wife and every other fucking person that talks to me. Uh I'm sorry. But now you all get to hear it. You're welcome. Um You're welcome. You're welcome. I do want to preface this with I am not against people who are Christian per se. No, not at all. Um there are issues I have with that sort of thing. This is not to it's gonna okay. Maybe it is to actually criticize Christianity, and I I can say it probably is.
SPEAKER_02:What if we put it in the vernacular of instead of it being about criticizing your seeking?
SPEAKER_03:Um I want to be able to do this.
SPEAKER_02:I want to be able to commit to Christianity, yet and I think that's the saving grace in this whole conversation is that these are really the rantings, if you will, of someone trying to of a seeker, somebody who is looking for answers.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I I gotta be honest with some of the self-um exploration I've done and even kind of listening to, you know, like um Wesley Huff and Jordan Peterson and a lot of these guys who have different perspectives on Christianity. Um, and of course, just going to church and hearing sermons of people that I very much love and respect and finding so many contradictions and double standards.
SPEAKER_02:And so so he does have a lot of this around him. It's not like he's just oh, I've heard about this and this sounds like hooey. These are these are genuine like journey, life journey questions.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. That you're absolutely that you're wrestling with. And I gotta say, I don't like people who just say fuck religion just for the you know, I've got friends who just say fuck religion. Like it's just blatant, like boom. I don't like that either, because then you're not even trying to give it a shot. Go to church uh with my wife and son, you know, not as often as I did, in fact, not nearly as often. The only time I go now is when uh my mother-in-law preaches. And um I always say if I was ever to find the spirit through anybody, it you hear, is that go out into the world and and and share the love of the city. The thing that bothers me about that is even my own personal community knew where I was at with it. And it's a small church, it's like 30 plus people, and none of them reached out to me, and it's like even this little intimate community can't put whatever in a bit if you're following, if you're passionate about your religion, which is supposed to be your core, you know, thing. It's like religion is everything to you. Great, right? The power of Christ compels you. The power of Christ compels you. Get out there.
SPEAKER_01:Does it, does it, Jay?
SPEAKER_03:Does it compel me? It's not that compelling. Um that's this is the end. But you know, that kind of not walking the walk is a lot of where this is the struggle for me. So um to get a little deeper.
SPEAKER_02:So hear it as a rant or hear it as a you know a call to arms.
SPEAKER_03:If if you honestly I prefer it being perceived that way.
SPEAKER_02:You can't be frustrated with somebody who's asking the questions because they're doing they're trying to do the work. However, when they're not met with that same effort, your religion begins to feel a little hooey. Um like this is great. We all get together on Sunday and we tell the stories and we talk about how great life is gonna be after we die and we go above the clouds.
SPEAKER_03:And how you're supposed to live the life now and go spread the word.
SPEAKER_02:That it isn't more important to those that are saying they want to bring in the herd, right? Yep. Like you want to bring people in, then get off your butt and do it. We should just put a disclaimer on everything that we are going to offend some of you. Completely outside of this. Part of the reason that offenses happen is because there's not understanding. Which to me, if there is a misunderstanding, that means you need to communicate, not a la la la, I'm not listening to what you say. I feel like if there's a miscommunication or a misunderstanding, there needs to be conversation. So if we offend you, please reach out. We would love to not offend you and somehow find some common ground so that we can learn from each other. People are so quick to point the finger at somebody not realizing there's plenty there's a big mess in your own backyard. You know, and if we all spent more time tending our own backyard and maybe asking our neighbors, hey, how do you keep your backyard so damn clean? Yeah, like that's the thing is like the leaning on each other and the really helping out, the mentorship, yeah, the can connecting with those you initially might misunderstand or or be offended by. Right. Communicate with them. Don't just communicate, I'm offended.
SPEAKER_03:Instead, and that's the culture friend.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like something you said may not have hit me right. Can you help me understand and start the dialogue, start the conversation? Learn from each other.
SPEAKER_03:What I'm the most conversational person you'll ever meet. If things stay a conversation stating both sides, we can agree to disagree. We might discover something in the other person's comments that's actually really beneficial. And that's exactly what this this episode in particular is about. The dialogue. Here I am ranting, I'll admit that. However, come back at me and help me understand. Help come back at me and help. Let's have the conversation. I'll share my perspective. You share yours. Let's see if we can find a common ground. Maybe we're both resolute in our opinions and it's not going to go anywhere, but that's okay. We can part understanding the differences rather than hating each other.
SPEAKER_02:And even if you even if you part disagreeing, the fact that you both came to the fence made the effort. That right there shows okay. Well, there there is goodwill intended. There is absolutely on both sides. Coming a turnaround. Alright, well, so uh, you know, police officer um uh pulls over two priests in traffic, says, uh, hey, we're uh what was we're looking for don't botch this, it's so good.
SPEAKER_03:We're looking for two pedophiles, sir. We'll do it. Good stuff. Okay, sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Further down the path, and you see some, you know, sometimes the crop the paths cross, you know, we intersect on our journeys. Mentor. Reach out to someone. Someone struggling. Give him a light, give him a hand up, you know? I mean give him a hand up. No.
SPEAKER_03:Keep your okay, folks. Look up the whitest kids you know. Whitest kids you know, slow jerk episode. Oh, yeah. And and forget about graping. I'm sorry, I'm still on that. Yeah. Now you gotta watch this video because you're gonna actually have to. Oh wow. Don't make me grape you in the mouth right now. I'm gonna tie you to the radiator. I'm gonna grape you in the Oh man. Boy, that's perfect for the Christian. Some of the best, worst humor ever. The absolute worst, best humor. Yeah, worst, best.
SPEAKER_02:Like every faith, I think that there are people who feel forced into it. I think there are people who feel like if I if I just accept this, I'll be accepted into this community. But we need to create better communities to be accepted in, as in, hey, come on in, we'll help you out, versus, hey, come on in, think like us, otherwise, fuck you. What's the difference between Jesus and a hooker? I already know the answer, but the way they look at you when you nail them. Okay, so okay. We haven't lost every Christian viewer.
SPEAKER_03:No, it's all the Christian viewers. Oh, look, what's this episode? Yeah, we can already see it, even though it's not live or anything. I can visualize it.
SPEAKER_02:Every Sunday. It's true, folks, and I can still talk like this.
SPEAKER_03:But I will say And that's why I talk like this.
SPEAKER_02:But but there are wonderful congregations. There are there are truly beautiful people gathered together that really truly believe the message and act. If we create those communities of acceptance, we very much are going to further our own paths as well as the thing is, and I'll just interject this quickly. Go ahead. You may have all these questions, and then a single look between you and your son may answer a bunch of them. You know, it it's as simple as that. They're really the answers do come to you, but a lot of times they don't always come when you ask.
SPEAKER_03:True. You have to let them come to you, like let the universe, or in this case, let God come to you, or however you want. Accepting them for Christians, them as if then they're them. Those people. Um but accept Christians for who they are. Yes. And in a way, logically, I feel like I have. It's that I haven't accepted the religion. Religion is a form of grievance. It's a form of grievance. You'd go to AA for accepting religion. I had to lose myself. I had to come back to First, you have to admit you have a problem. Right, there you go. My name's Nick, and I hate Christianity. Okay. Um He's 12 days sober. I'm 12. No. I'm on day one, and I have been for it. You have really smart viewers.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. Not if you're watching this, the awkward pause. Not if you're watching this. But I'm never gonna be Dyed in the wool, living the word as it's written, kinda Christian. I very much believe the big picture items, but some of the minutiae gets to me a little bit. I'm like, uh. And if I just really it's not that I don't pay attention to that, it's that I don't I don't rage against it. Right. It's it's right for someone else, so therefore it belongs. Yeah, there's value, like you said.
SPEAKER_03:Having this conversation, like openly with you with the podcast and like people out in the whatever, is that I'm not clearly I'm not just like fuck it all together. You know, I'm having foundational uh uh struggles with it, and I would like to understand and be able to accept it. Like you said, I'm in that anger state where I'm mad about it. I'm mad that I can't get there, actually. Interpretation the interpretation of man is is kind of the problem. Yeah, and I think that gets in the way of actually finding the spiritual part of it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um don't don't find it through fellow man, find it through something greater. Yeah, if you can take religion and turn it into a war, you made a wrong turn. And this is gonna probably be maybe arguably the most controversial thing in this episode, so I saved it for last. If you made it this far. If you didn't, if you didn't, you're you're pusses, little bitch. You can go pray to your little god. Um I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know, I know. Wow. I mean, I just wow. I like to find humor in literally everything. Um, and I nothing is off limits for me. And it's how we cope. It is absolutely. I mean, honestly, I'm doing that humor because I'm so fucking pissed about this whole thing. You can do humor about anything, you can make fun of mental illness. I find that shit funny. I love the mental illness themes making us look like crazy people and and having us do stupid things. I love that shit. It's funny, yeah. That's awesome, right? It's hilarious. And I would argue there's some downright offensive shit out there. So serious. But like, fuck, it's great. Laugh. That family guy joke, real quick. Okay. Um, there's a family guy joke real early on where Peter's in church and he's he's taking communion. And uh he says, Is that really the blood of Christ? Peter says, Yes. He's like, Wow, that guy must have been wasted 24 hours a day.
unknown:Sorry.
SPEAKER_02:That would that would explain the water to the water. That would explain the water to wine piece. Like here.
SPEAKER_03:Somebody jizz into a wine glass for you. Oh, is that not where you're going? No. Petting the wrist and little blood, little blood letting, you know, dump the water real quick.
SPEAKER_02:They'll never see it. Here's your wine. Um anyway, so I would love that sermon too. And so I tell you, my fellow brother. Oh my god. I was uh wow, everybody got a loaf of bread. I got a source of love worldwide response on the on those kinds of questions. Like, is it okay that there are contradictions? And what does that mean to you? Is it all symbolic? If so, why isn't it not told that way? Why is it not taught? Told it literal or however you want to put it. I understand. And this is okay, so religion as is, how is it, what is it good for? It's great for young minds. Absolutely. No. But I think it's great for young minds because it handles large abstracts like love and trust and all those things that you can't conceive of as a child and puts them in the form of stories that you can understand. Now, once you get to a critical thinking point, the front of your brain extends out and you start to and you start to Okay, that made everyone uncomfortable. That's even worse. That's even worse. Um, once you get to the yeah, we're so good at wrapping it up. Um you get to the critical critical thinking stage. How is it you reconcile some of the things that my friend Nick has brought up?
SPEAKER_03:I just got to the critical thinking stage. 32 years old, my brain just developed. Not even true. Struggle with the idea that you can be the most amazing person on the planet, yet if you don't believe in Jesus, you go to hell. At the moment of at the moment of death. Right. Um, you know, you could have be the most charitable, generous to your heart. Like there's no um Like us. Nothing can try to Adolf Hitler, you know, lived, you know, our not a great life. You know, he was kind of a he was a you know, he was a bad man. Bad man. Heart goes out to Hitler. Heart goes out to Hitler. No Elon! Um so the idea that, you know, but you know, the whole thing if if Hitler before he either bit the bullet or took the cyanide, I don't remember what he did. Um I think it was a bullet. Or maybe he's still alive, like Elvis. Um before he did whatever he did to end his life, which I believe is also the unforgivable sin. Um God, I didn't even think about that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So it's Yeah, what that's a whole episode there. If you accept Christ right at the end and then commit, oh gosh, we're gonna need a bunch of things.
SPEAKER_03:You know what? Let's just end it there. To be continued. We gotta end this soon.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, don't look to the Eucharist, the Bible, or the cross. No. Don't look to the the harmonica thing. The harmonica.
SPEAKER_03:The Hanukkah the Hanukkah, the candlestick. Stop. Okay. See, my faces are better than that guy. I'd want you. We want you. Yeah. And we are deities. Oh. Where are you going, Wolf of Walsh? You are missing so many. Sorry. Uh I was just cheap tricking it. Oh, mine was way better. Yeah, yours is way better. That was Matthew McConnell. Hopefully, you got through this episode and understand. We barely did. Understand where you're where we're coming from. I know there's a lot of bad humor, really cringy, awesome, honestly offensive humor. I'm offended by half the shit we said. But authentic and honest. But it is authentic and honest, which is our brand. It's right on brand. So thank you for watching. Bottomhoo, aka beat the mental health out of it with the defective schizo effective and don't look to the bottle of the knife or the gun. Look to the soul, you'll become. God loves you. We love you. Peace be with you. In Jesus' name we pray. God. Amen.
SPEAKER_04:Let's beat the mental health out of it.
SPEAKER_03:You heard the rants. I know they were probably difficult to hear, but again, we're doing that to illustrate, frankly, my growth. I imagine he's probably doing about the same. I don't know. We'll find out. Anyway, now we're gonna play you the TikTok video that really honestly gave him a lot of different perspective too.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And honestly gave me a lot of different things to ponder. So we're gonna play that. The poster of the video is Second Man Adam.
unknown:I remembered.
SPEAKER_03:You did? And thank you. Second man Adam. We will link the video in the description as well. That way you can subscribe to his channel or whatever you want to do. So he's a TikTok creator that creates content about Christianity and things like that. So we're gonna air that. Stay tuned. After what's that?
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So you don't believe in God yet? Scientist Sir Roger Penrose calculated the likelihood of the universe having this precise of a design, and the calculation he came up with was 10 billion to the 123rd power, which is the number 10 billion with 123 zeros at the end. A number that humans cannot even comprehend. You say you don't believe in God yet. Atheist scientist Stephen Hawking stated in his book, The Brief History of Time, that at the moment of the Big Bang, if the expansion rate of the universe was different by even one 100,000 millionth millionth of a percent, that the universe would have collapsed back on itself. You say you don't believe in God yet. Your existence alone is a human with a 400 trillion to one odd. You say you don't believe in God yet. Did you know if one person's DNA was unraveled and placed end to end, it would stretch to Pluto and back? You say it takes too much faith to believe in God, and to that I'll ask you, have you ever seen non-intellectual produce intellectual? Have you ever seen non-life produce life? Have you ever seen a massive explosion or expansion produce design and order? Every explosion I've ever seen has led to mass destruction, not design and order. You say you can't trust biblical text because they are ancient manuscripts that were written by men thousands of years ago, yet the Bible is the most preserved text in all of humanity, over 25,000 manuscripts in the world. I then ask you, why do you trust the reliability of people like Caesar, Galileo, and many other ancient figures when they have far more less items written about them? You say that the Bible has been mistranslated and altered, yet the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in the 1950s have proven that claim to be false. You say you don't believe in the miracles of Jesus, yet you believe in the miracles of the universe being almost perfect in every aspect for us and our ecosystem to survive. You say it takes too much faith to believe in religion, yet I counter that claim with the notion that I believe it takes way more faith to be an atheist than a theist. You say you don't need God to have good morals and you would be correct. But then you cannot ground your morality in anything else but pure opinion. And you say, who cares? And I'd ask you who was right morally? Because it all comes down to subjective opinion if you're an atheist. And if you've had enough bad people have a bad subjective opinion, we would be in a world of trouble. God allows us to ground our morality in an objective manner instead of pure opinion of one person versus the next. You say the Bible isn't reliable, yet see over 2,000 prophecies confirmed from the Old Testament to the New Testament. You say believers are living in a fairy tale, yet the evidence of Christianity is so overwhelming, I would ask you, how can you not believe? You say, why does God allow humans to suffer and not even have enough food to live? And I'll turn that question right around against humanity and ask, why do we as humans allow people to not get enough food in water to survive? You say, why doesn't God just come down and show himself so that we can believe? And I say to that, he already did, and we killed him. And I know that if he came again, we would try to kill him again because the world hates the truth and loves their sin. So get right with God now.
SPEAKER_03:If you like Christian content, follow, subscribe for more. And we're back. Oh, okay. So uh I don't know. Hopefully, I'm gonna make sure it's I'm paranoid about that. That's happened to us once, you know. Yeah. Okay, good. Now we include that too. Yeah, cool. All right, we don't cut, we don't make one. We cut one. I cut one. We bet it in one video, yeah. And it was an important one. Anyway, so that was the video that really helped adjust my perspective for sure and gave me different insight. And I imagine you too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is why I started talking to you about it. I think there are some really good points in there. And I think if you think deeply about a bunch of those points, it it really has to make you question why you're not at least allowing for the idea that there's gotta be something.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and you know, I've mentioned, I think, on here before, and even out there, you know, in the world.
SPEAKER_02:Um that was from Magic Camp.
SPEAKER_03:In the world. Um Hogwarts. Hogwarts, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Um about a good whatever, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:No, that's the evil curse. Ah, whatever. You'll end up in hell. Either way, we all know I'm a dementor anyway. Suck the souls out of people.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway.
SPEAKER_02:Um I met a few of those too.
SPEAKER_03:By the way, sure I have. Sure.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway. Um I really forgot what I was doing now.
SPEAKER_02:That's religion.
SPEAKER_03:Religion, right. Um, I knew that.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so we we showed the second man Adam video, and then a lot of those points were really sort of were the genesis. Uh get it. And oh, there's the genesis of uh of this soul.
SPEAKER_03:The exodus of the Deuteronomy, the the numbers. Just just don't get your deuteronomy. The Leviticus. Don't get your Deuteronomy. I don't want your Deuteronomy. Oh, that's a good one. Uh another good one. Right. So anyway, that's you're saying I did a good job. Oh my god. Wow, we're good. Oh my goodness. Goodness gracious. Oh, obviously, you need to use the job. There's I'm trying to think of some funny stuff, but it's not coming to me. No, no revelations. Stop that. Good Lord. Yes. Oh my god. I said, gosh, that time. Yeah, she did. These are sanitary. These are safe, too. I like that. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And today on today on Autumn Hui. What's the you know?
SPEAKER_03:MPR.
SPEAKER_02:MPR.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what's it joke but it's NPR? It's uh what is it? And uh today we're speaking into the mic. Whisper whisper. Whisper whisper. Okay. We're gonna lose them. Okay. No, we don't want to lose them. We don't want to lose. Stay with us. Stay with us. 75,000 of you now.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I thought it was just 75. That's what I just want to 75, well, 749. Yeah, we don't like all of them. Anyway.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know half of you half as well. You lose them! No, I guess I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. I'm gonna have to go think about that one. That was Lord of the Rings. Bilbo said that too at his party. Cool. So obviously, that video is pretty damn profound. And I I want to even go back to today. Um back to today, as if I saw that video first. Back to the future. Um so I talked to my mother-in-law, and I'm gonna go ahead and name drop her because this was actually a really profound conversation that that maybe even adjusts my thinking a little further. So, you know, she she had listened to the podcast and um ended up stopping listening because there was one episode that I used several racial, no, not ra religious slurs. I never use racial slurs. No, thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Except for the blackface you mentioned earlier.
SPEAKER_03:That was an accident. Couldn't like Black Carl Black Carl needs to take that out. Yeah. Um But we had a really good conversation about why she stopped listening. So in one of the episodes she heard, um, and obviously we throw a lot of jabs at religion about everything. And in my in my humble opinion, um okay, I don't want to get off track because I'm gonna get on that later. So anyway, we had this conversation and she illustrated it on one of the episodes. I I don't want to say it again, but I I put two terms together about Jesus that were not cool. And then I we laughed about it. Um so that that's on brand for us. We're we're gonna laugh about some things that people would consider offensive. However, she is somebody I admire greatly. I love her to death. She has been a phenomenal person in my life. And that first episode that you saw snippets of, I actually never. Released so that I wouldn't offend her. Um, and many other members of my church. I go to a little community church, and I know several of them actually have listened to this podcast.
SPEAKER_02:He's an among them.
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna get no, I'm gonna get into that actually. No, really. You know, a lot of them have listened to this podcast, and my mother-in-law actually informed me that a lot of them stopped once I did that. So clearly, that was a sore point. Valid. I'm not gonna invalidate that for her or any of them. Religion is something that is very core to my mother-in-law, to obviously the members of that church, to anybody who probably claims to be Christian, or frankly, any religion. Um, so I'm not gonna take that away from anybody. I don't, I will never deter anybody from being a Christian either. Um, to give an example of that, and this will kind of lead into what you just shared or spurred me to think too, is we dedicated my son to our church. So to be brought up in the church. Um and that was unbelievably difficult for me. Because, you know, during this dedication, you're saying you will raise your child in God and things like that. Here's the thing, though. Let me let me say this is that I have no issue with my son being Christian.
SPEAKER_04:Sure.
SPEAKER_03:None at all. If if he I'm okay with him being exposed to it and being brought up in that church, it is a community-driven church. I love that. I love the people there. So if any of you decide to hop on this again, know that I I adore and love many of you. Um not all of you though. I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as I'm sorry. I I'm surprised I memorized that. No, I'm not. I know every movie I like. Spec Dill of the Rings. Either way, uh if you had done it with a Nicolas Cage accent. I don't know half of you. Yeah, half. Oh, that's okay. I thought you wanted me to actually do the whole thing.
SPEAKER_02:No, that's just referencing it.
SPEAKER_03:You gotta do it. It's all good. So again, I will never deter anybody from committing to Christianity or any religion, and that includes my son. Um, he's going to be raised, obviously, my wife, and then mother-in-law, and I think about everybody on my side is also identifies as Christians. So I'm okay with that. Here's where I will draw the line personally, and it's where I see a lot of kids. I know I'm not going to name-drop these kids, but I can I even count it. I can name four kids within that 16 to 18-year-old range that their parents forced them to go to church. All four of them hate it. They actually, it has increased their disdain and their resentment not only towards Christianity in the church, towards their parents. So that's where I will draw the line myself. If there comes a point when Max is teenager, age, and he decides that, hey, I'm not feeling this, or even offended by some of it, because I was certainly there. And I know a couple of the kids I mentioned are definitely there. I'm not going to force it down his throat, and nobody's going to force him to go to church. And I've already had this conversation, so you know, it's it's not going to be something I'll bug on. It's like I'm not going to have anybody force his sexuality on him, you know, his gender or any of that shit. He those to me are things you need to find on your own. You can be exposed to know they exist, but then you need to find that shit on your own. Um, so anyway, I would never deserve somebody from it.
SPEAKER_02:But then what will we work on with our shadow selves?
SPEAKER_03:Ah shit. Did we just cure shadow selves? Humanity, friend. Humanity, that's right. What we do. Right. What we do on earth. Serving. Bottom hooey. Serving protect protecting no.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_03:Defect. Serve and defect. And defect you. Disinfect. Oh. Yeah, that's good. Defect and dis- I don't know. All right. Um, so anyway, had that conversation with her, and as I mentioned, you know, very difficult doing that ceremony because I'm literally the only member of that church who isn't a believer. And I was up there in front of everybody having to say, you know, Pastor Mark was saying, you know, will you blah, blah, blah? And I'm up there saying, I will. And I gotta tell you, if you look at the pictures, I did I tell you about this? There were my sister-in-law took pictures of us up there. If you look at them, I am unbelievably uncomfortable. And I was up there thinking, oh, I'm nobody's seeing this, nobody's picking up on this. The good thing is, is Max is up there crying his ass off because he was not happy to be there that day. And Katie and everybody's laughing, so I'm really hoping, of course, now I'm putting it out there, but now you listen to it anyway. But what I'm saying is, I was unbelievably uncomfortable. And it's because if I'm gonna go to church, much like I attribute this to the kids I mentioned earlier, I don't want to be a poser, I don't want to be fake, I don't want to be any of that. If everybody's bowing their heads in church to pray, I don't want to be the only one like, okay. Or communion comes around. I don't take communion. Okay. I want to actually I look at that as respecting the sanctity of the religion, honestly. But also myself, as we talked about in last episode about shadow self and authenticity, it even goes that deep for me. I'm not gonna sit somewhere and you know pray and all this shit when I don't believe in it. That is not genuine. Um so I have stopped going to church regularly. I will go on special occasions like holidays and and uh you know things like that. I will also go anytime my mother-in-law preaches, who I mention. Um, I always want to support her in that. And given things that happened in the past with that church, she was denied the opportunity to be a preacher because she is female. I don't need to get any more detail than that. But um I want to support her. And again, this all comes down to hearing her pain in that I express things that way mattered a lot to me. And it made me kind of think about, you know, I'm not gonna get any less crass or offensive or whatever on this show. It's not what it's about. However, I want to be a little bit more considerate about things like that. I don't know how much of that's going to change. There may be a point that I get fucking irate about Christianity again. But I'm trying, as we mentioned last episode, being a bit more careful about what content you put out there and making sure you're in the right mind when you do it a little bit more. We're never in the right fucking mind. But there's something to that. So kind of vetting your content, and that's why I wanted to release kind of this juxtaposition idea to show you the growth and the difference when I was in that fucking honestly manic, incredibly angry state to now, as I mentioned in the episode with uh Guff, which we did a second one, I talked about how due to hitting a major depressive state, um, I don't have that fight in me right now. So it's like I don't have the energy to be angry about every damn thing out there. I don't have it. So by default, I'm kind of forced to accept things because I don't have the energy to fight it. It's like it is it's it's giving up in a way I kind of looked at in accepting things, but I've adjusted my thinking on that to it's actually growth and it's actually finding that balance. Yeah, I don't I don't think there's give up in you.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thinking that's the thing. Reframing it as is the much reframing. Well, and I think that it's probably more growth-oriented than trying to hold firm to something that didn't serve you anyway.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. And that's what I had to kind of hit that state, which I'm kind of still in. Although I don't think I'm in that depressive state anymore. I've kind of adopted a bit of that mentality through hitting that. So again, that's kind of why I hit that again, and I wanted to be like, okay, let's let's do this particular topic.
SPEAKER_02:Well, then this is brilliant being able to show growth in action.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was kind of my phone. And then, you know. So proud. Thank you. I feel growth.
SPEAKER_02:Well, take a shower.
SPEAKER_03:Don't even know. A little gangrene in some areas. My job.
SPEAKER_02:I feel growth. Yeah, I feel growth too. I don't know what you're doing over there. Grow what? You don't feel growth? When I'm dirty, I'm growth.
SPEAKER_03:Oh listen, sure. Making fun of Virgil tonight. We love you, Virgil. We actually love you so much. If I was ever to be sacrilegious by being gay, it'd be for Virgil.
unknown:Huh.
SPEAKER_03:Problem is he wouldn't And to know he wouldn't want you. Exactly. Just the drum. If I could change into a drum set and he could beat me.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. Okay. Shadow self episode all over again. Oh, that was funny.
SPEAKER_03:That was funny.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, you're opening up. I get it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Got some uh deep dark tighten the hips. Yep. Okay. Okay, anyway. I think there's at least two, right? I don't know. You haven't seen me with my shirt off. Might be a few more nips in there. Just like a oh, you know, one of my favorite jokes, and I gotta add it, is um we love jokes. My uncle, Mark, showed me this. He didn't he didn't do this to me, or I might be traumatized. Oh, that's um probably good, I guess. But he talked about in high school he played radio with women. Have you ever heard that one? Have you heard that one? Okay, it's not that that oh, it's like, you know. Just let me know as your drink. Yeah, thank you. You'll need both. Yeah, I will. I will need both. Both. You're a both guy. You're not a both guy, it's both. Both? So you ask your lady to hold up their hands, and they do, and you say, Come in, Tokyo. It's very good. It's very good. Okay, can I nope. We'll move on. You can do whatever you want. Nope, nope, nope. This ain't my show. This is your show. Don't forget that. Struggle bust. It is your show. Struggle bust, yep. Hey, almost that 20-minute mark. Did you see it or are you just feeling the 20? Um, anyway, sorry, that was a good tangent. That's what we're known for. Yep. So, anyway, that conversation and a lot of those things coming out about her struggles with it and her concerns and her taking offense to that, I do want to consider that. This show is not designed to offend people by default. It's not like I'm saying I'll land a shit about anything for the purpose of being offensive. What I did tell her, and I think it actually resonated pretty good. I don't think I've shared this on here, this perspective, is that I have mentioned many times that I don't share what the voices say, verbatim at all. Ever. Um, I never have. Not even to me. Not even nobody. My family, therapist, wife, um, Tony, nobody knows, even really to a very small degree how bad they get. Um, so when I say things about, like I said, about Jesus, or I've said about anything that I've said on this podcast that comes out that way, here's my thing is that you are getting a very small peek into the to the insanity and darkness that I hear. Deprivity. You are getting an incredibly small tinge of that. So when those things come out, I'm choosing to veil it through humor. Um, if I was to say outlandish shit in a rant form, like a true anger off the, you know, out here, and I've done that. But if I do that all the time and I don't kind of disguise those things as humor, they come out incredibly uncomfortable. And my perspective, right or wrong, would be I would rather express those frustrations and that fucked up shit I hear, very small tinges of it through humor rather than any other way. Because humor is what? Humor is the best medication, laughter is the best medication. And take our fucking pills, because that's a good segue into. So obviously, we've done a lot of jokes about Christianity on here. And we will continue to do so. That's not going to change. I can try not to say certain just blatantly dumb things like I did on that episode. And honestly, I probably I even look back and like, why the hell did I do that? I do look back a lot at these and I'm like, why the fuck did I? Oh well, it's already out there. And those aren't things I'm gonna change, like as far as I'm not gonna go back now and be like, oh, I better edit that out. Um this is not gonna happen. But I can be aware of it for the future, those little things. I'm not changing hardly anything, but I can say I can vet a little bit just for the respect of certain people and the viewers a bit.
SPEAKER_02:Speaking of the viewers, how would a viewer get a hold of you to give an opinion? Because that made me think it would be nice, because we're we're not going to change. We are who we are. Is our belief gonna change maybe ever so slightly? Sure, because that's growth. You know, I mean, I'm not the same person I was when I was a teenager to now. I mean, everything everything is. But if if there was a way to get a hold of you, I would love for some of the viewers to weigh in, or viewers, listeners, whatever. Well, viewers now, subscribe to get back at you. Yeah, all that fun stuff. Weigh in on. Do you think it would be helpful to have some sort of well, it'll just end up at the beginning of every episode. Some sort of precursor warning, you know, um trigger warning with the other.
SPEAKER_03:The only one I did that was suicide. I did that one on that one. I did do a warning on that one.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, I mean, but I wonder if viewers really and it it speaks to one of your other recent posts on TikTok. The the suicide does not saying suicide protect anyone. And I think we all know that's bullshit. It doesn't. Yeah. If anything, it almost makes it more covert, more hidden segue right back into where I was going.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Continue your thought, but you're seguing right back into it, which is good.
SPEAKER_02:I just think it it would be an interesting poll, I guess. Mm-hmm. If you're into taking polls, I know. I'm all for.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, here's the thing is they'll take a poll anytime, boys. I don't even know what that oh now I gotcha. I do enjoy, is it pegging? It's growth. Pegging. It's very growth. Yeah, it's a I'm getting growth right now, just thinking about thinking about constant throwback. Constant throwback. Oh man. You know what? Honest to God, well, look at that. Honestly, since we did that in the Shadow Self episode, that video got 2,000 more views. That's awesome. So you know you can't resurrect. They're but you just did. That's right. Tic Tac likes to put them in the graveyard. They sure do. And then we pet cemetery that shit. Yeah, we did. It comes back like even more evil. More evil. I love it. Anyway.
SPEAKER_02:Um I think it would be I think it would be a good thing.
SPEAKER_03:I think it'd be really neat because as we discussed in the last episode, we don't get a lot of feedback from people we don't know. So there's 75,000 of you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, interesting. It keeps growing, but nobody wants to talk. Nope.
SPEAKER_03:And that's what we talked about that in the last one, is that there is a discomfort in even just having the conversation. So it's it's great to hear us two jackasses leave on it and those insane enough to join us on the show.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we're out here losing family and friends for you. For you.
SPEAKER_03:You're ruining our lives. Um, actually, this is making it better in many ways. Um, and it's not providing money. No. So still not looking to monetize. I don't ever plan to, unless we get Rogan level status. I think there's a lot of good we could do. Break it in. Sure. But we, you know, we would we would distribute that. That's beside the point.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Probably give it to the Catholic Church. They know what they're doing. They need more money.
SPEAKER_02:As he said, we're not gonna change.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I see Catholics. Well, always you know you know they have to pay their taxes, their property tax. Oh, wait, churches don't have to. I'm sorry, that's terrible. Churches don't pay property taxes in America.
SPEAKER_02:So separation of church and stake though. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I had to throw that in a way.
SPEAKER_02:Um You're getting on a rant about Christianity.
SPEAKER_03:That's exactly what we're trying to do. Oh no. Um, anyway, so he was kind of seguing back into the idea of unaliving versus suicide, where sanitizing that isn't benefiting anybody. Here's a take. Here's a take, even on Christianity or any topics that people find are really sensitive about. Very hot take. Fair enough, maybe. You might get a little steamy in here. Here's a take on this. I I honestly would love a poll on this, and I might even do a TikTok video since none of you fuckers respond to this. Um fuckers. That's what we should call our subscribers. You're not struggle bus passengers, you're fuckers. Get on the bus, fuckers. But this so like Christianity, for example, or you know, cancel culture, canceling these guys, making fun of gays and trans and politics and anything, any subject. And I'm gonna include Christianity in this because obviously we do a lot of humor around that. That obviously did offend my mother-in-law and plenty members of the church. I don't know how this is gonna go over, but this is my perspective on it. The more you people are sensitive about a topic, the more they're not willing to make light of any of it. I think they're doing a very disservice to the cause they're trying to protect. Um, it's like these content creators who are out there, you know, putting all this in their face and and criticizing the other side and things like that over just making light of things. Um, I always say that if I'm not joking about something, I'm not taking it seriously. Again, processing all this shit that I hear through humor. That's my approach. That is called a mature deflection mechanism. I'm not saying I'm mature. I'm not claiming it either. But that is what that is. And it is one of the most prominent ones out there. Whether you're deflecting about Christianity or something that's less core to you, we all deflect with humor. There's different levels of that, there's different severities of darkness and offensiveness. But unfortunately, from my perspective, when I got this much fucked up shit in my head 24-7, the level of darkness and offensiveness that comes out of me, it's gonna off-put most people. I don't expect most people to find half the shit funny. I love it when I say something outlandish and I just look at the other person and they're just like, it's okay. That's honestly the joke because it's still gonna come out the way it's gonna come out and it's gonna be what it is. That's how I cope. It is a coping thing. If someone like clearly there's 75,000 of you resonating with our humor and our approach to this, great. If you don't, again, move on on anything. Yeah, but to take offense, come back the next episode. Yeah, I like that.
SPEAKER_02:We'll take another crack at it.
SPEAKER_03:We'll take another crack at it. Um, but if anything is so if you're so easily offended by anything, you're setting yourself up for failure.
SPEAKER_02:Well, because how many comedians and I'd like to take a small stance on that one too, add something too. If you're taking something so serious that it offends you, then there's something about your faith that's fragile. Or anything that you're insecure. Um Yeah, and I mean if you genuinely if your religion and and this is the thing. I don't like religion. I love spirituality, I love people who are strong in their faith, um, and that can be part of religion, right? You can experience that from time to time in a religious setting. However, to me and it links back to the story you wanted me to kind of go back into.
SPEAKER_03:He talked about this in the first episode of Christianity, but I'm only gonna air the offensive stuff about that.
SPEAKER_02:He I I ended up on the cutting room floor. Carl got me. Black Carl. Whoops? Black Carl's. Yeah, well, for this episode. I mean I don't know what happened to White Carl. I uh he went to Mexico. Carl Winslow's are I did get a text from him. He was in Mexico.
SPEAKER_03:Did he get deported?
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_03:We were we hired him because he didn't have a green card. Oh.
SPEAKER_02:So it's Carlos was his real name? Yeah. I don't know. We're off.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, no, that's what happened. Okay. Carl.
SPEAKER_02:You know they're deporting immigrants. Carl puting immigrants. Yeah. We hired him and burning. I don't know. Anyway, um, so at one point, we don't do political. What are we going to do?
SPEAKER_03:We tackle Christianity. Trump, you're niggas.
SPEAKER_02:Political's a joke, anyway. Um, okay, so when I was much younger, there was actually a thought in my head, probably it's interesting I became the horniest boy in the world about the same time I wanted to maybe become a priest. About 12, 13, 6, 7, was it rebellious sixth, seventh grade? I don't know. I don't know. But you know, I was deep into the spiritual aspect of it. Um, grew up with a mother who was kind of this because she read palms and you know, things like that. So I had that part of things in you know, uh in the mix with um being brought up cat Catholic. And we used to what that was being a jerk, I'm sorry. Hard to Catholic, right? Come off the tongue. Anyway, so yeah, we had a preacher, um, guy named Father Jim. Father Jim was a very, very interesting soul. I want to say it was probably late 70s, early 80s, somewhere around there. So you can kind of imagine the transition from 70s, full beard, um, you know, got the I don't know what they call that, the collar, but in shorts and black socks and sandals.
SPEAKER_03:Father Jim was a picture priest or something, right?
SPEAKER_02:He was an interesting cat. He reminded me of Serpico. Like that's if I yeah, the guy didn't. The Chino? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah, I can oh I can picture it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's Father Jim. Wow. Drinking Diet Coke. I like him already. Yeah, he was pretty awesome. Anyway, so he came over to the house as often did Father Jim. Yep. Don't know. I should look. How would you find him? I don't know. Maybe he watches the podcast. Wouldn't that be awesome? I've never reached it into that. We should have him on. I was kind of imagining it. I will look. I will see if I can find it. Anyway, so he came over, sat at the kitchen table drinking his diet coke, and I kind of expressed that I was thinking about possibly going into the priesthood, seminary school, the whole thing. And I said, but I just have so many questions. There are just so many things that I I don't feel strongly enough about my faith to feel like I could get up in front of people and tell them about it. And he said something that quite honestly, while it changed the course of my life, it it also left a huge impression, and it's it's helped me in a bunch of other situations too. Um he essentially said, you know what? That's probably what's gonna make you a great Catholic. That's gonna make you a great follower of Christ or Buddha or my trigger horned on to make you a real good Catholic. Oh, yeah, that definitely helps. I was an altar boy, by the way.
SPEAKER_03:Oh god. Oh Lord, oh my gosh. Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_02:Snickers and a coke. Um have a coke and a smile and shut the f no, wait, I I haven't told that joke, have I? Should you? Probably not. Not in this story, but I'll tell it after. Anyway, so he he essentially said, no, the fact that you are a seeker, the fact that you have the questions puts you on the path to discover. And I really never kind of looked back from that point. Because at that point, and I know it's gonna come off as blasphemous to some people. Know that I have read the Bible, I spent lots of time there. But I don't need the scriptures to go find my connection to my spirituality. Um, and I I won't sit here and wrestle with you one way or the other, whether there is a God or there isn't a God. Uh that part is immaterial to me. I know what I believe, I know what I connect with, I know what energizes me. And I think it's because I had that conversation. Because I think if I had gone to school and learned the right and the religiousness and you know, all the ritual and R-I-T-E, right. Right. Okay. Correct. Correct. On the right. Yeah, anyway, enough wordplay. Makes me I like floor play. Uh yes. Uh, but anyway, yeah, so being able to set yourself loose on a path is quite honestly the best way to really truly that sounds like a treat two in the background.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway, um emergency. No picked. Guff shared a video. Guff shared a video with me on TikTok.
SPEAKER_02:Aww. Hi guff. Hi guff, and for the bushes. Anyway. So I I wanted to share that piece to say it there is no one true path. Not to me. Maybe there is to a specific religion. I know there is. I'm kidding. I'm I'm not kidding. I'm I'm trying to defer to the idea that I'm on my path, you should be on your path. Even if you and I follow the letter of the scripture, whichever scripture, we're gonna interpret it differently. That path has to be a personal one. And so as long as you are seeking, which is what I think you're doing, while you may not have the answers, it's the the robustness that you put into that search. Yeah, all of the thought. I know how much you sit around and ponder this stuff. Because we have I know. Right, I mean we need to we talk on here for an hour and a half, two hours, and I know you spend the other twenty-two to twenty-three thinking about it.
SPEAKER_03:I do not settle down with not just Christianity, period.
SPEAKER_02:No, but anything that you are passionate about, you should pursue with your whole heart. And and you don't have to follow someone else's path to find your own path. To kind of the same destination, I guess. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03:So more that you wanted to throw out there about Well, what's interesting is you know you still gotta get back to the video. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, we go forever. Yeah, we do. Um, but you know, you mentioned Father Jim said, you know, you being a seeker, and he didn't just say to Christianity, right? You said No, he said it's the fact that you have the questions that will make you walk the path. And I think one struggle I have is, and this is my perspective. I want to share that a lot of I mean, I'll podcast, period, but I I want to reiterate on this episode, especially since it's about something clearly this personal to a lot of people, including people very close to me.
SPEAKER_02:Including you.
SPEAKER_03:Including me. Just yeah, that's true. I think it's faith isn't so important to everybody. You know what I mean? Spirituality, and that means even if you're void of it, if you're an atheist, even it's important to have that identified within yourself. Um, one of my biggest things, and I I liken that to knowing where you stand sexually. You know, if you're on either side of the fence or ace or you know, bi or any of that, trans, that is such a core thing. If you don't have that worked out, it there is a level of discomfort and chaos with that. I liken spirituality to that, and honestly, I've never had that iron down in my soul.
SPEAKER_02:Actually, that's a really good point. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03:So there is a chaos that kind of I'm always questioning, well, what do I believe? How do I feel about this? And that constantly ebbs and flows. And I was even talking to my mother in law today, you know, about even devout Christians question their faith over certain things. You know, my my Mother-in-law's father, um, Ron Robinson, who was a pastor at our church for 30-something years and was an incredible man, passed away about a month or two ago. Um he's another person, oddly enough, him and his daughter, Missy, my mother-in-law, are two of the most people I ever felt the spirit through, if I was ever to fear uh feel it. Um and his passing was hard on all of us. But what was going to share about that is I know my mother-in-law did a sermon right, it wasn't when he passed, it would have been a while before. And this was the most powerful sermon she ever did by far to me because it was so damn personal. And I wish more sermons would lean towards personal rather than leaning on scripture. That's me. Because if you're gonna relate to me in any way, it's gonna be on the personal level rather than don't dispout scripture or me and history. That's it's like I can read the Bible for that and make it personal if you want to affect people. That's the human side.
SPEAKER_02:That's the mental health recruiting.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. So, you know, she she had mentioned that, you know, when when her dad had severe dementia and was in the in a nursing home for three years, far too damn long. Um, and you know, she questioned her faith. I don't know to what degree, so I'm not gonna claim that oh, she was about ready to defect. I'm not gonna claim that, but she really struggled why God would have plagued somebody who was such a devout Christian and served him so well and so, you know, powerfully and influenced so many in that faith. How could God have been okay with or allowed that to happen, or whatever you want to call that? I gotta be blatantly honest with you guys. I don't remember how she said she was able to get through that struggle. I don't remember because all I remember thinking was how pissed off that that happened. I'm not so sure I really paid attention. I fucking should have. I apologize for not paying attention to how she kind of resolved that in her head. I honestly I don't remember. I mean, not me when you ask her again. Um she was able to reconcile that within herself through her spirituality. Um that kind of leads back into a big issue and struggle I have with Christianity. And I mentioned it in the first episode that we did, and if I can find the damn clip, I'll probably include it to show the the change. Um and we'll we will get back into some of the topics that were mentioned in that TikTok video and talk about how those really made me think. And I know you too. There are a couple of very poignant. Is that how you say that? Is it poignant? It is poignant, right? Yeah. Okay, sorry, I was hoping that.
SPEAKER_02:You can say the G if you want to. I think it's fine. Poignant. I like that. Now you sound like Elmer Fuck.
SPEAKER_03:I was about to say that's exactly what I was thinking.
SPEAKER_02:Heard it poignant?
SPEAKER_03:I think poignant. Um Wow. Wow.
SPEAKER_02:That was pretty good.
SPEAKER_03:Um either way, it's a very um I lost my train of thought. Damn it. Where was I going with that?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you had just finished talking about um his passing and how Yeah, so he had passed, and you know, she was able to reconcile that situation with within herself. I'm curious to know.
SPEAKER_03:I would too. I I can't believe I can't remember, or maybe I didn't fucking listen. Because I was irate about it, too. I was irate about that whole situation for many reasons.
SPEAKER_02:But either way, she got there, and you know, my take on that whole thing, too. I mean, it talks about the flesh being infern, right? Right. The the Bible, right, I believe, mentions that. It but that's a struggle of the flesh, that's a struggle of the body, right? It doesn't have anything to do with God.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and the soul is untouched. Look for the soul you'll become.
SPEAKER_02:And and that's one of the things that we've talked about too, even when we've had mental health discussions, your your soul is untouched. It's in there. There is always that spark inside of you, which I say spark, and one of the things that helps me feel like there really truly is some design to the universe is that energy can never dissipate. Right.
SPEAKER_03:It just transfers or changes.
SPEAKER_02:And that spark within each one of us is pure. And I think every religion ever made says that that part is pure. It's that when we come here, we have these experiences and we're tested and alter it and all those things.
SPEAKER_03:Positively or negatively.
SPEAKER_02:To me, the the whole, well, why would God let somebody because it's part of that one person's path. It has to happen for that person to walk the path they are supposed to walk. Doesn't mean I want to see it happen to anybody, anybody I know, anybody I don't know. But it's going to. I don't know that I feel like it's destined or fated to happen. But I think when it does happen, the soul has to face I mean, one way or another, we have to face reality, right? Whether we openly face it and and, you know, take accountability for our misdoings and things like that, or you know, we mask or we get behind something or we displace or blame or whatever. I mean, there are so many choices, but each of those choices shapes the soul. Yeah. I feel like there's no reckoning that. It's right. You're talking about flesh and the soul. The person you know is the soul. Right. The flesh that you know, really just the physical representation of the soul you love.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right. So it's really neat that you mentioned that. And I'm glad, because I actually forgot to mention this. I'm so glad you sparked that in me. Is Yeah. Hey, cut um, is you mentioned that you know the body is not tied to the soul. The soul is its own separate thing. What's interesting is that when my when he when my grandfather-in-law, I didn't even just like call him my grandfather, he was pretty cool. Um, either way, when he got so bad that he couldn't hardly speak, one of the last things, practically the last thing I saw him do, my wife and I had went to see him in the nursing home. And if this didn't solidify me questioning some things, I was still in a weird state of mind. If I look back on this moment, is we were about to walk out and he asked, mumbled, to pray with her. And there was nothing left in that man. But he prayed with her, you couldn't make out what he said. But then at the end you did see in Jesus' name, amen. Fucking heard that verbago. And I have that, I believe, on video, or at least pictures of it. Boy, that moment stuck with me. Because I'm like, that man had nothing left in that head, and that was there.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, and that's the thing is the soul fights through.
SPEAKER_03:Right. And if that the two things that stuck around with him, with that honestly beautiful man until the end were his humor. Because that poor guy would sit in his bed and just laugh. And it wasn't maniacal laughing. The guy would laugh all the time and when he was there. But he would his obviously his faith and his humor were there till the end. It was beautiful. And I remember the little the few times I saw him at the end when he would laugh, I'd be like, laughing with him. I didn't know what the hell he was saying. But he was it was not a maniacal laughing. Something in there was sparking him to think something was funny. And he leaned so heavily into humor in his cognitively functional days. I don't know, that's a but it that's a beautiful thing to me that humor and faith were at that core to him until nothing was left of that man's mind but those two things. And since we're talking about faith.
SPEAKER_02:That's an interesting thing. I would love for your mother-in-law to hear what you just said, and then to juxtapose that to the way your faith is, yet still humor. You are still walking a path towards your faith. Yeah. It may not be textbook, but it is still your path. And if one of the tenets of your religion is not to judge and is not to be the judge, because there's only one who should, right, how can we not find understanding, acceptance, right, grace, whatever you need to be able to still connect with another soul? Because the soul, as I said, or as I believe, right is the pure part of someone. Your words, the words you say may be offensive. The intention is still the same. You are still walking towards that path. I don't know exactly what was on tape that was so bad. I I guess I can repeat it. I I don't need you to repeat it. That's fine. Because we're not trying to be offensive aside.
SPEAKER_03:That's actually the totally antithesis of what we're doing here. Okay. This episode's kind of meant to not correct some of that, but reframe it, is the whole point of this. And I honestly think I can convince my mother-in-law to listen to this one.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Even if she has to skip over the first part.
SPEAKER_02:I prefer you not say that phrase now. That's why I was going to pick it up.
SPEAKER_03:But um I she knows what it was.
SPEAKER_02:I think it would I'm sure she does.
SPEAKER_03:That's a bit specifically.
SPEAKER_02:But I I think that there's room for all of us at the table that might have been in a specific scripture. Um but smart, yeah. I know. Um but the idea being, like, okay, so church is not just to go and show how good a person you are, which um you know that I go to church every Sunday. I don't necessarily go because of my faith every single Sunday.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:I am paid to be in a praise and worship band. And quite honestly, I absolutely love the community that that church creates. I have never met more authentic, beautiful souls. I'm sure they're all flawed, just like every person. But the fact that they come together and they get done, the things that they get done, I am in awe every week.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'm not mistaken, they've helped you a couple times personally, right? Well, hospital. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Oh man, the things that this congregation has done in my sphere alone is amazing. But the mission trips that they do and the outreach and the um what do they call it? Lord's table. Like they they literally open up and feed. And like they're it's an amazing church. I love every single one of you. If any of you are listening, know that I love you. But let me also say this I don't show up every week going to church because I'm seeking. Sometimes I'm just going because it's my job. But I will say this if I did not go, I would not have received what I have received of the message. Quote. The message. There are things that pop out of you know, sermons or whatever that you're like, oh wow, is he talking about me? If I didn't just go because I was going, I wouldn't have heard it. So this is actually my plea to say, hey, if you know my good man Nick here, and I know you do, because I'm talking about the one specific person, I think that those doors should be wide open to everyone. If you are truly of faith, then you have to allow that person to be in whatever state they are in and visit your uh church. And by church I mean the congregation, the people. Right. I'm not talking about the structure. You have to allow them to be in that presence so that they can feel or learn or see what has been unfelt, unseen, unlearned to that point.
SPEAKER_03:So let me make sure I've never felt unwelcome.
SPEAKER_02:Don't.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm not saying that I think it was my decision to stop going. I I want that said, I don't want to make it sound like she didn't welcome me. And and I'm not Jack encourages me to go.
SPEAKER_02:And I certainly don't, if it's come out that way, I I don't want it to be that I'm painting someone to be evil. What I'm saying is there is a bridge. And that's me, that's it. Your faith, each one of you, where you are, is that bridge. That connection between people. So I think so. I hope that people don't just get hung up on words. Because words, I mean, unless you found another way, I don't know how to express a feeling. And sometimes you can't say, I'm frustrated. Sometimes you have to go Florin Filth, a crappity friggin' offended. And that's how you feel the feeling. They're words, okay? The words that offended, they were intense words, but they're still just words.
SPEAKER_03:I often come off very intense with my I don't think we know them.
SPEAKER_02:We do. Am I right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, okay. I I do, absolutely. I've talked enough. No, I I dominated the first few minutes. Um, I no, I I'm really glad you you went that direction with it and said those things. And I would say I I feel incredibly loved and supported even still by that church. So obviously their love and adoration. Sorry, I didn't mean that word. Their love for me has not changed due to my lack of faith.
SPEAKER_02:Adoration. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Fair enough. I don't think they adore my doubt. That's not what I meant. I'm sure they do adore you. I adore you. You know what's funny. I was just thinking of that uh Darth Vader line. I find your lack of faith disturbing. Hey, that's a religion. Yeah. Um execute. 66. Okay. That's his text tone when he texts me. There's an inside joke to that. We can get into that. Another time.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's a robot chicken quote episode. Love robot chicken. But um Thank you, Seth Green. And friends. And yeah, exactly. Um, by the way, uh that was really great to get into. Um I guess the kind of what kind of circle back a little. What are you doing? I don't know. Are you seeing something? I'm not. Are you diagnosing me with actually I have that I have that joke with Katie all the time. And she's like, thinks she hears something. I'm like, are you talking oh god, it's contagious. Oh god, it's in the air. Um anyway. I just pull out. You know what's funny is think of think about this though, and this is on this topic is how many people, religious or not, say goddamn it, or say Jesus Christ, and in in you know In vain. Why do we do that? Religious or not, is it just so ingrained in the I think so. It's interesting. I mean the fact that OMG became an abbreviation. Hard coordinates became an acronym. It speaks to how often people say it. Even people who aren't religious. And again, those are not made to be offensive. It's just, unfortunately, by default, they're expletives. But we just say them.
SPEAKER_01:Damn it.
SPEAKER_03:Damn it. That's right. Take the God out of it. Anyway, um, so this episode for this only, next episode, we're getting right back on that train. So, Christians, this way. Ignore the others. Um, either way. I one of my biggest Can you see the label?
SPEAKER_02:I do all the time.
SPEAKER_03:We're sponsored by. No, that's what I was like, the dude. I'm being the worst of enjoy whatever that is. It's tasty. You don't need to think it is.
SPEAKER_02:So good.
SPEAKER_03:Holy water.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, the c I was just gonna say the crates and crates of and then you say holy water. So I'm I'm imagining holy water dumping on us. That's gonna be more like a flash dance.
SPEAKER_03:I was just uh Okay. That's a funny skit. Yeah, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_02:I just released baptism would be so much sexier that way.
SPEAKER_03:I wouldn't want to do it if that's how they didn't. Oh, can you do that behind closed doors?
SPEAKER_02:I know you would do that.
SPEAKER_03:Let's totally see you with right now. Believe it or not, I am shameless enough to do about anything. I know. I'm afraid of how it's gonna affect those around me. Like my wife is married to this fucking idiot, or my son, his father, or even my parents' child. I don't I don't just they don't deserve that. If I was the only entity in the world, I bet they'd still love you if there was a million million fund. Like that. Um we just released I just released that uh you look like you're tired after that. Oh my cardio. That was my Oh, I laugh about that all the time. I get up to get the remote, I'm like, well, that's my cardio for the week. One of my favorite things to do, too, is if I hold the door open for somebody, I'm like, well, that's my good deed for the week. I've I'm done. That was it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Or like if I'm on Google Maps and I'm driving and they have that thing, like, is there still a police officer up here? You ever just lied on that just for the shitsake? No, not at all. Sucker. How many people do that? Probably a lot. Or people say there's an obstruction in the road, it's like a pebble. Uh. I'm sorry. That was a random rant. Um, but probably one of the biggest struggles with me when it comes to Christianity, which I ranted out tirelessly on the first episode, which you will hear those snippets. Um, going back to mother. Mother. Mother. Um obviously the the key point of that movie is God being a narcissist. I'd say that's a very that is probably the core of it. And what that causes his followers in the world and all this stuff. Here's the thing. Um, I unbelievably came off very hated about that. And I struggle with a lot of those concepts because I s I feel like I see that in the the religious construct itself. Well, so it's definitely one perspective. It is a perspective, and unfortunately, that's going to be a controversial one for Christians. And and and that's okay, by the way. I will validate you 100% anybody who believes that or doesn't, if that's an uncomfortable concept for anybody. Um give an example, you know, I when I was kind of on this kick about just ranting about my struggles with Christianity, I did it about to everybody who would listen. And I think people stopped listening after a while because I was just so damn heated about it. Um I talked to my mom about the movie Mother. She hadn't seen it, but I was kind of describing to her, I think I told you about this. I was describing to her, you know, the the things it was the questions it was raising and the concepts. And so we I talked about it for maybe three minutes. And honestly, I wasn't trying to, I didn't try to convert anybody, but I was showing my frustration with the concepts and how I was struggling to be okay with them. My mom literally stops me mid-sentence and says, Can we can we go and move on to a different subject? And I simply asked her, I said, Are you okay? Is this bothering you? She said, I'm just uncomfortable with it. And I said, Is it challenging you in some ways? She said, Yeah, and I don't really want to think about it. So, no judgment on mom or anybody. Those are uncomfortable concepts. They challenge faith, which is again a core such a core thing. Well, it's interesting, my mom's not somebody who goes to church on Sundays, neither is my dad. Um, but they both are are devout Christians. They they live many of those of those morals and and ways of life out. They live it. That's a big deal to me.
SPEAKER_02:And according to some books, you don't get in heaven that way.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. But beyond that, um, it's kind of what you went back on, you know, saying that going to church. I guess it goes back on kind of my foundational belief about uh some of this is that if you're going to find Christianity, maybe church isn't always the best way to find it. And I think bring this around, I think a lot of the constructs of Christianity itself and the way it's taught and the way it's interpreted and yada yada yada corrupts the very message itself and also can turn people away. And that's exactly where I'm at. And exactly what I think you're saying a bit is to find your own path. I'm not going to find my path to Christianity through being preached to a lot of through scripture. I'm not going to find it. I and you know, often you hear it taught that, you know, you're just you might have a moment where you feel it or some intervention that hits you, and I'm open to that. I'm not saying if I get a sign or something that feels that way, that I'm gonna be like, uh fuck that shit. That wasn't what that was. If I feel like it was that, I will acknowledge it. I'm not against finding it. I'm not saying it will never happen. I'm not closing my uh doors to that. Right now, I I don't feel open to it. Because, again, some of the concepts illustrated in mother and even Well, but it's not even just mother, it's been experiential.
SPEAKER_02:I know that we've all I mean, I've had bad experiences with faith. I mean, I I and I mean no disrespect and even telling the story. I did a week-long revival playing drums for a convention. And it was, you know, a really nice time, uh, right up until the very end when it was, hey brother, you're going to hell if you don't accept the things that we And I'm like, okay, I've said nothing one way or the other. But you wanted me. No, but that personating it. Wanted me to play the script, right? The scripture script. And I wouldn't do it. I'm I understand that discomfort you were talking about in the pictures for your uh uh dedication. It's it's not a comfortable thing for somebody who genuinely feels as strongly as I do about my faith. Do I think it's right for anybody else other than me? No. Which is why I'm not really going to share it with anybody else. We can share the topic, we can have discussions, but I am never truly going to give you my recipe because it's not your recipe. Not unlike shadow self.
SPEAKER_03:It's not unlike that. No, it actually. I mean, that shadow self is completely who you are. It's personal. You don't exactly have to project that out there either. No. Um, I mean, of course, you go into Christianity, you know, you're supposed to be going out there and bringing more followers and spouting the word of God and Jesus and all this stuff. It's in every sermon. So I guess that's not exactly a great idea.
SPEAKER_02:No, that has more to do with that has more to do with religion. Rather than faith and spirituality and connection to your source.
SPEAKER_03:And I guess that's the biggest issue with me. Mm-hmm. And is that exactly what we're good at bringing things back around this time. It's not fucking slow here.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's interesting too, and I don't think you've said it yet. You know, the the vitriol that others hear come out of your mouth about religion speaks to how personal the frustration is.
SPEAKER_03:I've said that to you before, but yes.
SPEAKER_02:And the fact that it's personal, you are a seeker. You wouldn't be frustrated if you didn't care.
SPEAKER_03:That's exactly it. And I would argue, I think a lot of people who and I I this is an argument that I have no backup to prove. It's a feeling I have, isn't that people who commit to atheism probably are done seeking. I feel like. And I know that's not probably everybody.
SPEAKER_02:But there have been plenty of atheists, you know. I mean, I've run into people who I was like, oh wow, I thought you were at one point I was afraid you might be a devil worshiper, and I just thought you were an atheist. No, you know, I found the Lord Jesus Christ. And that's fine. If somebody finds that and it does wonderful things in your life, by all means, right, go that route. Because sometimes we get lost enough that we do need a roadmap.
SPEAKER_03:You know what's interesting that you just made me think is you know, I've I've had some things not so great happen to me lately in my life, you know, Gaudi and other issues I don't want to get into, but I've had some things happen in my life that have been incredibly disheartening and honestly helped me hit that depressive stage, which honestly I think has provided me the opportunity to have a lot of growth, which is what we're illustrating here. Um I can't tell you how many times I've thought about what if I just go ahead and pray to God? What if I do it? What if I just go ahead and say, fuck it, I'm lost. I can't, I can't figure anything out. And like it, it's like, are these bad things happening? This is my thought. This is my thought process. Are these bad things happening because I've forsaken him? It's like, and this is the thought process. I'm not saying it's right or not. I'm just saying this is what I'm thinking. Have these bad things happened because I kind of have officially denounced him at this point. It's not maybe permanent, maybe it is. But it's like, what if I went ahead and just what if I did it? And I haven't done it, and I don't want to. And there's a reason for that.
SPEAKER_02:But go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:I'll remember filming.
SPEAKER_02:Do you think you've denounced religion or the existence of I've denounced Christianity? Okay. That's a religion, though.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I've not denounced my spirituality. I haven't. I still feel like there's a higher power. I I even described to Missy, my mother-in-law, today. You know, I was talking about how when I brought that gun to school and I was gonna take care of myself in front of not in a fun way. That would have gotten me in way more trouble. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that's fine.
SPEAKER_03:Um visual joke there.
SPEAKER_02:Gotta watch the video. Well, you guys we had.
SPEAKER_03:Um either way, you know, I was gonna go shoot myself in front of all these kids.
SPEAKER_04:In a blaze glory.
SPEAKER_03:What's funny is is that something about that?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. Oh. I I mean Wow. Sorry, Bon Jovi. I didn't listen closely. All we know is living on a prayer.
SPEAKER_03:I was too busy groping to the stuff. Um anyway. Um That's way back. Oh, I think you've told that story. Which one? Where you were listening to Bon Jovi at a prom or something, and you uh uh maybe that's somebody else. That sounds like a used story. I'll take it. Who remembers that stuff?
SPEAKER_02:It's as old as me, so probably a lot of people. Okay, sure.
SPEAKER_03:Are you one of those like 500-year-old monk people? You got kind of old for it. Yeah, don't I? Yeah. You're wise and powerful. Um kind of like execute. An American Gandhi. Just a lot more muscular. I don't even know where the hell that came from. I just observed your bald head and I thought Gandhi had a bald head, right? I believe he did. So, I mean, Tony Gandhi, Tandy to Gandhi. We are way off track. Yeah, I'm sorry. Um so much so that I don't remember why I was really going at all with that. Oh, you said you wouldn't remember. Bring it back around. Oh, so you see it's not that hard. Um You don't even need to pay the most exit stage left. You weren't here to begin with, were you? What? I told you, what if one day we just had it to where you were just not on camera and I'm like conversing with you right here? Everybody doesn't see anybody, and that'd be kind of funny, right? I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:We've found a way to bring Nick's voices to life. Oh God, I hope not. We're gonna interview Nick voices. Nick's voices.
unknown:I hope not.
SPEAKER_03:You all get your holy water and crosses and your power compels you still. You're safe. Um but turned my head. Um Yes, you were saying. So um damn it, I lost my train thought. So yeah, I had it and I lost it. And I'm trying to get it back.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like our thoughts are more on tricycles than trends. Huh?
SPEAKER_03:Oh. That's very good. That's very good. Um but uh let me think. Backtrack, backtrack, backtrack. Yep. Where are we where are we going? I don't know.
unknown:Damn it.
SPEAKER_02:Because you didn't tell me until I know.
SPEAKER_03:I was like, I don't remember. Um I thought you just brought it back, you said. I did, and then we got on some sort of random bullshit, and then I lost it. It used to train comments for it. It was. Yeah. So backtrack before the training. Um what are we talking about before you got on? No one cares. Um not really. No. People part price thought. People are only listening so they can fall asleep. Probably what do people listen to podcasts for?
SPEAKER_02:65,000 happy sleepers.
SPEAKER_03:I think we're obnoxious enough to keep people awake. Probably. Um This would not be comforting as I'm falling asleep. Um, let's see if I can build back into it.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um that's the goal. Um You heard it here, folks. Um so Damn, I really cannot remember. Okay, we're gonna move on. Um, so I did want to get into kind of the pew pew. Um I wanted to get into kind of the the struggles with um kind of the the message itself. And that kind of goes back to mother. So the whole idea of God being a narcissist and and things that I've observed playing into that a bit. Um And also there there's even other messages in that show that that sparked kind of questions I would ask Christians. And I haven't asked my mother-in-law this question, or I asked my mom and she gave me the answer I expected. Um but she doesn't voice hurting. Huh? That's disheartening. Well, mom doesn't have a filter. So she's not she would say that too. Mom doesn't hold back. I mean, she's she's just open about things. I think that's where I get it from. Um either way, I asked her this question. I think it's a very deep one, is obviously Abraham was told to kill, you're not talking about this. Abraham was told to kill Isaac. Now he didn't. Can't kill her. Right. So he was asked to, and he was willing to do so, and was going to, and then, you know, didn't. Um, so if we're gonna follow religion and uh, you know, the the the code or whatever you want to call it, I would pose that question. Um I never have asked my mother-in-law or really anybody else, is you know, what if what if God, you believed 100% certainty that you were hearing the voice of God tell you to kill your child for some greater good or any reason, that you either knew what the reasoning was or didn't, but you trusted the word of God to lead the right path or you know, to do things in the best way, would you do it? Um and the fact that even Abraham was willing to do it is enough for me to be like, what the fuck? Um you know, when I asked my mom that question, it was an immediate, uh no, I wouldn't kill my child for any reason, um, whether it be God asking or anybody. Um, you know, that to me, that's I legit wonder because I know with my mother-in-law and even other very devout Christians that I know, you know, Christianity is the end-all-be-all for them. Um you know, even when I was talking to my mother-in-law today about her struggles with that podcast episode, you know, we it was actually a very calm conversation until it got to the where I she really got very passionate, not heated, but very passionate about why what I said was so hurtful to her. So, you know, my mom very passionately answered that question to uh no. It was like no hesitation. But my mother-in-law is somebody who's incredibly passionate about Christianity. So being that so, where's the line? Is there a line?
SPEAKER_02:Did she say she would kill a child for her faith?
SPEAKER_03:No, I've not asked her. Oh, okay. That's what I'm saying. I'm not po- I would pose this question to honestly, I would lean it towards mothers. They birthed the child. I don't like separating the whole mothers love children and all that shit. But you know what? I would pose it to mothers. I don't know why.
SPEAKER_02:Notice God didn't, though.
SPEAKER_03:Right. True. Which, yeah, I know maybe where you're going.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'm gonna go somewhere different. In fact, I'm gonna say, you know what? We need to have a uh sub-episode. Uh we're gonna have a uh Tony's corner thing. We're gonna Tony's two cents. All right. So here's my thought. I mentioned words are how we express feelings, right? Do I I've never I've never really been able to have a good conversation with anyone who takes the Bible literal. So to me, the Bible is full of a lot of teachable teaching stories. And I think Well, look how Jesus taught. Well comparable. I'm okay. I'm glad you brought up Jesus because I'm gonna liken you to him.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, don't do that, don't do that.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not trying to be offensive. What I'm saying is you used in the previous episode about Shadow Self a very, very disturbing example, right? I did why? Because you wanted people to listen, pay attention, realize how deep oh, right.
SPEAKER_03:No, you're right, yeah. You're right.
SPEAKER_02:You wanted them to pay attention through shock value. Yep, it was to get the message you had for them, right? I feel like the story of Abraham is exactly that. Because if you try to think of, okay, what's the one thing you could never do? All right. If you ask any mother, could you kill a part of yourself? They're gonna say no.
unknown:Right?
SPEAKER_02:So it had to be posed to a man because that's the next step down. Interesting. It is still of that man, but he did not birth it. So he does not have that connection to. Interesting. However, the connection that we are supposed to feel to God is supposed to supersede all. Right? True, yeah. Everything but if and we can go off because we can say, oh, well, God is a part of ourselves, and God is inside Isaac, and yes, all that fun stuff. However, I think that it is a we're human. I think that it is a stark example to shock so that you will question your own faith. Wow, is that something I could do? Gee, I don't know if I could and what it illustrates is the level of faith that that God is requesting. Yeah, okay, yep. Which sadly does lend itself to narcissism. Yeah. Depending on how you look at it. So again, the perspective piece is huge here. But if you're truly seeking, if you are truly trying to understand that particular story, understand the mechanisms in the story to get you to feel something that you can then connect to and learn from. Right. That example has to be that stark, yeah, but it does not have to be a reality. Right. I'm not gonna go through the Bible and say every single one of these, let's deconstruct it. But I think you can, if that's part of your path and that helps you understand more, think of it in feeling words instead of this is real. It doesn't matter whether it was real or not, the message is real. Yeah, the connection that you are hopefully gonna find inside there is real. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I I I love that you brought up that example because it really goes back to the power of the words and the power of situation and the perspective that you take on it. Right.
SPEAKER_03:So I anyway, I wanted to throw my Tony two cents. Well, frankly, I'd I'd love to get a a literal literalist. Literalist? Somebody who follows the Bible literal.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I think they hang out with the flat earthers.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe. Hope not. Well, you know. No. I don't know what to say. Take it up on Africa. Okay. All right. Um to kind of even piggyback off that a little bit. Um obviously in the name of religion, and that's not just Christianity. You know, I didn't know that was about Martin Luther King Jr. for the longest time. I just thought it was about in the name of love, you do stuff.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Including kill Martin Luther King Jr. apparently. April 4. April 4th. Shot rang out in the Memphis sky. Yeah, you would do that. Of course I would. No. Um but in the in the name of No, I'm not gonna hear that. Um in the name of religion. Um, you know, a lot of great things and terrible things have happened. Um again, where where's the line with that, too? Um again Does it matter? I mean, well, it's just the what's the interpretation again? That's what I struggle with, is Timmy, and this is probably gonna be a controversial take.
SPEAKER_02:Who's Timmy?
SPEAKER_03:Timmy. Timmy Timmy. We don't talk about Timmy. Carl. Carl.
SPEAKER_02:That Carl, please put Timmy back in his cage.
SPEAKER_03:Tiny Timmy.
SPEAKER_02:Timmy is of age, don't anyone worry.
SPEAKER_03:He's actually 36. But don't go to the Shelbyville Walmart and look on the wall of missing children. Watch Shelbyville. Because that's where we live.
SPEAKER_02:Oh.
SPEAKER_03:Oh shit. Carl. Whatever. People come find you.
SPEAKER_02:Um Shelbyville, North Carolina.
SPEAKER_03:No, Kentucky, there's a Shelbyville Carl. I don't know. That's where we're at. Um either way. Um my name is Indy Pocket. Indy Pocket. Yeah, it's a little obvious. A little on the nose. Um But you know, obviously great and terrible things have been done in the name of religion, and it it is hard to know. I guess my one of my biggest issues with Christianity in any religion is my perspective, maybe it's a it probably is a controversial one, is that they're all man-made constructs to me. Um, you go back as far as the Greeks mythology, and it is all man-made construct. Now, is that to deny the existence of Jesus or Muhammad or Buddha or any of these guys? I I don't know. I don't claim to be a historian or an expert on this shit. I don't I never would claim that. But the reason I consider these all man-made constructs is because they're all interpreted now by us, and you look at the literal scripture that we're all interpreting, and there's various sects of religion, of Christianity, that all interpret shit differently, and it's like man is corrupting religion. Man is corrupting it. Then that's exactly what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02:Man is corrupting faith through religion.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. You are you're doing very well about doing that as you intervening. Okay. You know, there's a TikTok video I saw today. Oh, yeah. Um, really good content creator. I never watched stuff. He put yeah, TikTok sucks ass. Um he did this video of like, if someone is born deaf, what language do they think? I wanted to do a stitch, and I didn't do it because I thought it'd be too much. It was like, um, do they think it?
SPEAKER_02:I think that they would say, oh. That was actually pretty much pretty much.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know why I wouldn't. You know what?
SPEAKER_02:We love the deaf community. We do.
SPEAKER_03:I mean they can't. They don't listen. Okay. Are they the most mentally sound people? Get it? Probably. Wait, did you mentally sound people? No, I didn't get it. I don't put subtitles on there either. That's too much damn word to edit all the words properly. Um this is for We need to say bad things about deaf people now. No. Um I won't. Uh so good Lord, I should not have gone that again. Why'd I do that? Anything for a joke. Anything. Even derailing the whole fucking message.
SPEAKER_02:More more medicine. We just need more medicine. Yeah. Um go ahead. No, I was just gonna if you don't have it, I was gonna say, well, let's talk about that video. Because we've made him wait for how long now? I mean, I think that I don't know. I can't see that's too far away.
SPEAKER_03:Um this company's coming back.
SPEAKER_04:It's all coming back to Monopolia.
SPEAKER_03:Oh okay. I'm really trying to remember how we got it. Damn it. Man, we're on topic, and then we keep bringing it back, and then I fucking started talking about a TikTok video. Yeah, it was before that. Oh, oh, I need before that.
SPEAKER_02:Oh.
SPEAKER_03:You're the neurotypical here.
SPEAKER_02:I think maybe we're teetering.
SPEAKER_03:Um either way, go ahead and move on.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Well, so that important. No. So just to sort of throw this part out, because we're not gonna talk about a specific religion, even though the video clearly is rooted in Christianity. I think this really truly applies whether or not you are Christian or Islamic or, you know, any of it, Judaism, it doesn't matter. Because the things that it references are concrete, are, well, maybe not concrete. They are theorized in certain cases, but there is scientific evidence, you know, that really truly proves some similarity to the story we tell ourselves about the beginnings of the universe and how life was created, yeah, all that fun stuff. Um, yeah, those are some astronomical numbers that you can't even yeah, like um you can't even conceive of. But the idea that that minute of a variation could have derailed the whole thing, I mean, even if you just flat don't believe there's gotta be a part of you that goes, those are some pretty crazy odds though. But I will say that the thing that really truly hit me when I was listening to that was, and and I think we even went a little further into some of the quotes on it, but when it said there's never been an explosion that created anything, he's wrong, because it creates a mess. I'm just kidding. No, what the intention behind it. He's I mean, it's irrefutable. I don't think I've ever seen a any explosion cataclysmic explosion or anything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That made me think that didn't create destruction.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And supposedly just I mean, if you want to be into all your literature and all that stuff, um is it Graham Green? Some green. Anyway, um I can't even remember, but it was the the book in Donnie Darko where they mention destruction is a form of creation.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it's oh, what's the quote? Um The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation. Is that the one? Is that the quote? I don't know. I don't remember that. Something like that.
SPEAKER_02:But anyway, I know you can again, all of this is about perspective, but the perspective I took on it was most of the bombs that we drop, those explosions, they don't create peace. They don't create peace for free or if anything. Yeah, I mean, essentially it's a message of ill will. Yeah. So to take silence or an explosion, like the big bang explosion, and say that life was created and and it could have been never, could have never been, yeah, with the tiniest fraction of a difference. Yeah, I mean, you gotta think, man, there's something there's gotta be something, you know, even if it is and and you know, in my head, I can even try to pare it down to try to defeat it and say, oh, well, this is only in one corner of you know the known universe that we But that's just it. We don't know what's out there. No, and apparently the government knows a little bit about what's out there and they're releasing some of that. So if if life happened because the bang happened the one certain way that it could happen to create life, I mean, I got nothing.
SPEAKER_03:I I can't refute that. I can't just turn from criticizing Christianity to trying to convert you all.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, not even a conversion. It's really just if you are going to walk a path, take all the information into account. Yeah. You really have to. And and I think a part of what a lot of people who can be a little bit, you know, judgy, a little zeality, a little, you know, I'm just on the annoying side, um, is that they they don't let you incorporate your lived experience. Right. And I think your lived experience has to factor in to your path. It's why I think every path has to be individual.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because if your experience is not a part of that, then you're right. Why would God give someone cancer? Why would someone who was so beloved and so walked the path have dementia? Right. Why? Because at that point you're just laying a template over it and going, but this is good and this is evil. But if you if you incorporate experience, each of us has that lived experience is is singular to you. Right. It has some overlap in it, but quite honestly, even let's say if both of us got divorced, God forbid, right? Um, if both of us got divorced, we would experience that differently and we would come away with different realizations. Every single person has a different experience. And I think that that has to be allowed into a church. And I'll say that as the congregation, not the building, because I want to be very specific about that. Regardless of the religion, I think that churches, communities, tribes, whatever name you want to put on it. Groups of people. Groups of people need to be accepting of individuals' paths. They wouldn't show up in your church, tribe, groups of peoples if they weren't seeking.
SPEAKER_03:Right. So I think there's a point where people are afraid to seek because of what they will receive if they if they find certain groups or certain communities. Um that was actually older man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's this there's a local church. Then this really bothered me. Is a gay couple wanted to get married in it. And they would not let them. They were a Christian, gay couple that were not allowed to marry in the church. Those are one of those things like that that I what it comes down to with me, and I've really done a lot of soul searching to kind of identify this within myself, is that I think there's a ton of great morals in Christianity among other religions. Buddhism has several great ones. I'm not really familiar with many others. There are so many beneficial I'll give you some books. Yeah, fair enough. Um Kama Sutra. And then I don't know. Yeah. Anyway. Um, there are so many beautiful morals and and and guidelines and and suggested paths we should all take that are very positive. Um but again, it comes down to the interpretation and the um the way those are um exploited often or just disregarded. Um We know exploited is a bad E. Exploited is you should never get to the third E. It doesn't even exist.
SPEAKER_02:And what are the two and one?
SPEAKER_03:Expression and exploitation. I have it down now. Stop before you get to exploitation. Before you get to the non-existent, the e that should not exist. Um by the way, um, it is things like that. You know, how we choose to interpret the word and we're all doing it differently. And um the fact that, yeah, there there are a bunch of wonderful moral things, but that is a complete contradiction to me. And the contradictions and double standards I see in I guess I'm talking pretty much strictly Christian because that's all I've been exposed to. It's the experience, but sure. Again, we're talking experience, always experience on this podcast. So I don't know a damn thing about Islam or Hinduism. I know some Buddhism, and you know, whatever. The point is, Christianity is what I'm affected by, it's what I grow up around and still, and it's in my life. Um, so that's what I'm gonna speak about. But the double standards I see by even the most devout followers, that turns me off from it. Um, absolutely. So it comes down to again, I don't like the idea of claiming there's a Christian God or Islamic God or any of it. I don't like that. Um and I feel like if you believe there's a higher power, isn't that enough? It probably not, I guess, depending on what you think about. I mean, but to me, that should be it. It's like, I don't I don't know if I the Bible being written by men, that's that's fake, that's fact. Written by men, interpreted the word of God and all these events, which how many things have men corrupted in history? What are we even teaching in our history books today that we're corrupting for our kids? That's a tangent, but like it we corrupt it all. We corrupt facts, we corrupt history.
SPEAKER_02:You do too, ladies. Why'd you take it there, Dan?
SPEAKER_03:But seriously, it's like we are corrupting everything from recent history to distant history. Men do that, man. Does that we just do? Um, it's and I think it's to fit our own bullshit narratives or fit our own stuff. And I think Christianity is no different. Um, so my thought is my feeling is why do we have to label it that it's this or this or try to interpret something that was written by a sinner or a faulty man to begin with? I know this is a rant, but it's it's meant what go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:We um getting ready for my Tony Two.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, good, okay, good. Okay. So I'll keep going. So it's like if we're gonna have these double standards and these interpretations that one group agrees with and one doesn't, even in my own church, you know, the church had a huge split because my mother-in-law wanted to be a pastor, and literally half that church left and fucked off because a female wanted to be pastor. I'm sorry, like, and I know you're against that too. So it's like, or you're for of you know what I mean. You're for of female power. I'm against people being jerking. Against people being jerks being discriminatory because of sex. So here's the thing, and that even plays back into the whole not letting a gay couple get married. The discrimination that is actually preached against, yeah, those freaking double stands. And see, I'm getting passionate about this because this is where it gets me. This is where I can't get behind it. The hypocrisy. And it it comes down to here's where I here's where I'm at is I don't want to be a Christian because of that. It's not that I don't want to have a God, it's not that I don't want to believe in a creator because I do. I don't want it to be a I don't want it to be a Christian God. The way he's depicted, the way Christianity is interpreted by bullshit man, and the way that it's corrupted and it's reinterpreted and it's fucked over my family, my mother-in-law. Um I do want to share this, and it is on that, is my my father-in-law, um, my mother-in-law's current husband, Rick, um, he he drinks a lot. And one of the most beautiful things came out of his one of his drunken rants. And it was about this, is he's not a believer. And he um chooses not to donate to our church because they fucked her oak. He said that in a drunken tirade. And I I did an episode with my friend Jake Miller, who is an alcoholic, and he talks about how, yeah, when people are drunk, they say some outlandish shit. However, the wall comes down too. Oh, yeah. The vulnerability wall comes down, and he's very much a kind of alpha man who's not gonna share those things. I've learned a lot about people. I never been drunk in my life. I'm always the sober one, and there's kind of many reasons for that. One thing about that is I do see that side of people. And actually, it can be kind of beautiful and refreshing. Refreshing because in that moment, he was so emotional about that. I don't know if Missy, if you watch this, I don't know if you know he said that. I know you guys have your struggles, but um, he said that he does not put money into that church because they would not let you be pastor, and that's something you wanted to do. I don't think that has anything to do with him not being a Christian. I don't think it's that. However, that's pretty fucking powerful to me. That's powerful to me. And again, it plays into the whole. Even people who just don't consider it at all, those moral double standard bullshit, period, um, objectively don't seem right. If that makes sense. So again, uh I I can shut up here, but the the biggest struggle I have. The biggest is I don't want to claim to be Christian or any of it. I just want to have my own fucking spirituality. And hopefully that gets me somewhere wherever that is. I don't know if there's a heaven, hell, or any of that stuff. I don't really care. I said many times in this podcast, and I'll say it again. It is comforting to me if there's a heaven. It's actually comforting to me if there's a hell. It's equally comforting to me if when I die, I rotten the ground and that's it. That's peace. That's probably the ultimate peace for me. You know, it's constant chaos in here. There's never any rest, there's never any reprieve. So if I'm just fucking dead in the ground and that's it, oh my God, that sounds like a dream. That was good. Anyway, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Good. That was good. Sounds good. That's good. No, you you mentioned earlier. I'm glad you hung on to your though. Not wanting to try and um but no, the I don't I don't want you to shut up. The being a part of this conversation would actually be good. And if you take the wrong perspective on this, you're gonna be offended. Um I have cute. It's this is our brand. No. Um no, the the idea you mentioned about, you know, if that's being Christian, I don't want to be Christian. And I hate the way those stories are told, and blah, blah, blah, and this and that. And I mean, okay, so there's all kinds of if you really dig in, there's some really funky stuff in the Bible. Um, you know. Well, that he gets it's pretty messed up. Yeah, there's some, there's some. It's hard not to interpret a couple of those a little cringe. But but here's here's my thought. And and I mean no offense by it. What I'm trying to say is I feel like religions, and I won't count out the discount the others, because there's some pretty silly stuff in almost every religion. But Scientology is pretty solid, though. Pretty solid stuff, yeah. Um I can't I cannot take, I mean, sorry, El Ron and me. Not a fan. So what I'm gonna say though is that I feel like, and I and I would assume other religions did this as well. The stories are kind of boiled down to the lowest common denominator. The reason being you want to reach the most people. So the story's not gonna be highbrow. That's fair enough. Fair enough. It's gonna be emotionally striking. There's gonna be something to challenge you, and then what?
SPEAKER_03:I'm so glad you brought that out. I'm gonna type this in my fucking bone because I don't want to forget with my goddamn.
SPEAKER_02:I just said you but something's gonna make you feel something's gonna challenge you towards growth, and then the message inside of it you have to then take on. So to do that and reach the most amount of people, the story has to be accessible. So unfortunately, when you make something accessible, it also oftentimes will mean it has vague words in it that can be interpreted to suit whomever is trying to sell the dictionaries or the vacuum cleaners that day. Um, but I think that that is part of what has made religions flourish, is their accessibility. And quite honestly, you brought it up earlier. You know, I'm not up, I'm not opposed to my son being brought up in the religion. The moment that he says he doesn't want to be a part of it, though, I'm gonna stand firm on that. Great. I have always felt, and you know, when I was married and had my son, we had that conversation. And I welcomed him being brought up in the church because there's some great lessons to be learned. But once you start critical thinking, I think that's where you veer from black and white, this is the truth, to how do these stories make me feel? What does it inspire inside of me? And where do I personally need to go to find those answers? So I think it's I think religion, the scripture, the Bible, and I mean no offense to anyone. Well we're all offended. Uh good. I do mean it a little bit, I guess. I don't, I don't know. I'm I'm weird like that. Um but no, I think that the way religion is delivered is the stepping stone to enough knowledge for you to do critical thinking and truly find your path. So there's the starter map, but okay, so let's even go on your map app, right? You go you say, I'm gonna go to such and such address. It's gonna give you three, four different ways to get there, right? That's good, yeah. And you choose the path based on time, based on tolls, based on traffic. Right, all those things. And so I think it's it's a good analogy to the idea that the the scripture is gonna get you to the app where you choose your path. But first you have to know the address, right? So we have to teach you how to speak the address, to find the address you want to go to. So I thought it was interesting that you you brought up that it was, uh, I don't like the way that's I think they're said that way to be vague, right? To be open to interpretation, right? Because we all have individual paths. But when somebody says, no, my interpretation is the right way, those are the people we don't like.
SPEAKER_03:Right. So well, good. That's burned another thought and may not wrote the other one down, so we're good.
SPEAKER_02:He's got two more thoughts. Two more thoughts. My God. Two brain cells are gonna collide, right? Oh my goodness explosion.
SPEAKER_03:Great things. Creation, creation from explosion. Yeah, thought shit. Shut the f I got shut the fuck, shut the front door. Okay. Um so on that, you said, you know, they're simple enough to grasp until we get critical thinking. And then, you know, interpretations come and all that, and it gets tainted once somebody says you have to follow this path. What I struggle with is when I'm sitting in church, it feels like everyone there has abandoned critical thinking because it's uncomfortable. It takes me back to that conversation with my mom. It's like, oh shit, that challenges me. Not comfortable with that. It comes down to I don't want to be challenged. And I think a lot of these people in church, at least show face of, but I don't want to be challenged. It's like I'm here to blindly be okay with this.
SPEAKER_02:But some people are made for that path.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Not everybody is a leader, not everybody is an explorer.
SPEAKER_03:And some are just followers.
SPEAKER_02:You cannot have a leader without followers. Some people are going to walk the tried and true. There will be variation even on their path.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right. But by and large. See, there's a judgment I have, and that's not fair. Because I'm like, I don't, I don't feel like anything should just be not explored. I mean, here's this brand, and it's a short one. It's just like therapy. You don't go to therapy to talk surface level. I'm sorry you don't. There's no growth with that. You're wasting your fucking money. Or you're just going to be comforted instead of actually digging into the the issue.
SPEAKER_02:I'm right. I'm validated.
SPEAKER_03:Uh-huh. Exactly. And as you know, that's what our one therapist favorite person right now on social media. You remember your fucking name, so we can get you on here. Rachel. Rachel. Um, that's the thing, is that capacity expert. It's really no different to me than religion or anything that should. I'm sorry, faith is profound. Spirituality's fucking probably the most profound thing there is. I don't like the I don't like the idea. And I do, just like I judge people, and I'm bad about this one. I'm not an overly judgmental person, but boy, this one gets me. Is when people go to therapy and they don't, like I said, they don't dig deep. It's just like they go for comfort, they go for validation, and they go for like, oh, just don't worry about it. Like, you know, fuck that shit. Find the genesis of it, find the the or the origins. There's the growth. Find your explosion. Find your explosion. You're a ha moment. I don't look at religion any different. That's why I'm struggling so fucking much, because I'm not willing to just sit there and be like, well, you know what? This must be how it is. All these people are like here and they're all devout believers, and they seem to be able to just whiff it off and be like, okay, that's how it is. It's like, I'm not gonna do that. And maybe that's like you said, that's who I am as a person. But to me, if if religion is something you're supposed to believe to your core and you're following it to your core, is that really core if you're not willing to actually explore it?
SPEAKER_02:Again, I go back to saying Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Well, okay, I I respect that because I think that's just a fundamental difference I have. And I'm willing to accept that.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I have the visual of it. I don't know that you've been to this park. There's a little park not too far from here. That there's kind of a little back area. That they've torn down now. That one? Yes. That one. Yeah, we've been there. Okay. So you know that there's a path.
SPEAKER_03:Behind back.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That path is well worn. A lot of people walk the path. But there are those few who vary slightly off the path, right? They go out into the weeds, they go out into the bush. Some people might even wade out into that pond. There are some people who say, F that, I'm not going that way at all. I'm gonna just gonna traip through the tall grass. Right. But those are far few in number than the ones who will just go to enjoy the path. Okay?
SPEAKER_03:So the w again, I'm really trying.
SPEAKER_02:Well, but what experience are you looking for in your seeking? Some people just want the beautiful path. It's easy, it's comforting, it uh anchors me. It and that's what those people are there for. Maybe that's okay. Of course it's okay. It's why I'm talking myself out.
SPEAKER_03:I'm talking about myself.
SPEAKER_02:No, I know you guys are. It's why the path is so well worn. But there's always gonna be that percentage that veers off a little bit, and there's gonna be an even smaller percentage that veers a little further, and then there's gonna be that infinitesimally small percentage that goes, fuck that, I'm going out of the weeds.
SPEAKER_03:Starting my own religion, you're starting your own. You are the weed guy. That's not that far out, but I'm not gonna start any fucking church.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not saying you're gonna start, but you you've accepted, you've taken in, I won't say accept it. It's a bad word. You've taken in all the information, right? That stepping stone to the seeker. But instead of really just launching yourself into your journey, you're still upset that certain people want to try to force feed you.
SPEAKER_03:Or just want to accept it blindly or not put the work in the butt why you're gonna get different levels. Yeah, you know what I think that is though, in me is um I don't nothing is calm in this head. Nothing is relaxed. And I I don't know if it's it's something to distract me. It's like if I I don't want to focus on this shit, so I'm gonna focus on I don't know. That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02:I wonder why, because I can't as I discussed on many podcast episodes now, acceptance and and but I I think with us talking of I mean, and and this rolls uh uh almost every one of our conversations into one topic. Authenticity. Right. To you, authenticity has some really difficult caveats and questions and ideas that are challenging and it's because and this is part of it. And that's a total manifestation of who you are, right, your individual path. Right. Some people do not have that. You know, there there is a person that we both know.
SPEAKER_03:I know you're gonna probably already.
SPEAKER_02:And she does not question. Yeah, she walks that path and she needs that path, right? Because it's comforting, right, right. It it is the concrete that she can walk on because so much else in life is the total shit has been complete.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, she knew I wouldn't be here without that.
SPEAKER_02:And that's what I think some people need. They need the concrete, well-worn path that challenges some of us who uh push past it and know that if it's truly a forgiving God, he's gonna understand, or she is gonna understand why we're seeking what we're seeking.
SPEAKER_03:Because that that impetus, that genesis was put in us right for you to know and right. So not trying to deal with beliefs. No, you're not. It's this is great. I mean, what's interesting is that you know, people walk the path, there's no growth even in society or in in discovery. It is people who veer off who advance society. Yep. You don't find and I in religion and I maybe anything, people who veer off are the ones who are gonna make the revelations for all of us and the discoveries are also gonna fuck up on a grand scale for all to see.
SPEAKER_02:It's not always success, but that trial and error is part of that life experience that then gets rolled into your path.
SPEAKER_03:Right. And I think, man, I I I don't like it. I have a fundamental core problem with accepting things on a surface level or or adhering to things that you don't want to fully explore. That is a mean thing, and I do not like it when people don't do it. Now, regarding therapy, you were there specifically to do that. So I think that's a bit different than you know, if you're going to church, it is a different thing. You're look you're going for comfort.
SPEAKER_02:You're going for well, is that really I don't know that you or I seek comfort in our path.
SPEAKER_03:I don't think I don't think that I will never find it. Uh that's the difference with many.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think that's necessarily. But no, because drumming tells me that's not true.
SPEAKER_03:Fair enough. Boy, bring it back to the OG episode.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, ultimately that that's part of your path.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. That is the key.
SPEAKER_02:That's the ultimate finding that piece. And I think once you find it.
SPEAKER_03:What we need to figure out is how to get that all the fucking time.
SPEAKER_02:Put it in the bottle. Yeah, sell it. No, but just I think there's uh it's I came up with this dumb visual as you were kind of going on. You know, you're you're the guy who jumps out in the weeds. You're the guy that is like, well, why isn't this the way? Well, what about this way? Why do I have to go that way? I don't want to go. I can still get over there from here. I don't have to go that way.
SPEAKER_03:I can still The difference is I'm not smart enough to actually make any difference that way. And I'm okay with that. I'm not smart enough to do it. And that's kind of what irritates me is I I don't have the intelligence or the wisdom to blaze any fucking trails. All I can do is sit here and be miserable that I don't understand. But here's the thing, okay?
SPEAKER_02:So the visual I came up with when you diarrhics when you no, when you go out into the deep weeds, you're out in the field, right? You're not in the safe, you're not on the path where it's clear. When you get to where you're going, wherever that is, you got burrs. You got all kinds of trickly, shitty things that have come with you on this path.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And they're uncomfortable. But do they stop you jumping off the path? No. Right. It's part of your path. I'm telling you. What do you think the destination is? But it's not the destination. It's never the destination. When you get where you're going, you're still gonna find, well, where are we going to tomorrow, Brain?
SPEAKER_03:You know, it's funny you mention is of course my mind goes here, is that you mentioned you know the bursts collect and everything. It's what if they collect too much? That's that I felt like they have many times. That's when it becomes you don't want to be on that any path anymore.
SPEAKER_02:But they're not lethal. They're uncomfortable. They're never gonna be lethal. I don't know. That's that's interesting. I have never heard of anybody dying, death by a thousand burrs.
SPEAKER_03:No, fair enough, but but we're being that's metaphorical. Sure. This is it's like those stressors, well, we're gonna bring it back. Those stressors, those painful discoveries, those traumatic events, all that builds up, the burrs building up so much that you don't continue on the path you need to not be on any path anymore, if you get my meaning.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I understand your meaning, but I guess that's where I take it all when we're talking about therapy, right? Not to talk in too much code, but it's shifting the frame, right? Shifting the perspective.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So the burrs aren't gonna be what does you in, right? It's a perspective because you keep it's the way you look at those burrs, right? And right now they're an irritant, they have not killed your seeking spirituality, they've pushed you from religion, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it hasn't deterred you from wanting to still have that connection, wanting to find that touching spark, right? Right. Um so I I just I think it's also part of you, how you learn, how you face the problems you face. You're head on about everything. It's why people listen.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it's annoying to people around me anymore. It's not relaxing to people around me. I I think I'm serious. They tune in once a week.
SPEAKER_02:No, I know.
SPEAKER_03:Other people around me constantly, and then it's not like I'm abrasive about it. It's just like I'll be talking, and then suddenly it's off on this deep fucking tangent. Can we just stick to watching the TV show, please? It's like I don't know how not turn that off. It's effort. Like if something pops to mind and we're having a good fucking time, it's like, Nick, just shut the hell up about it for a minute. Enjoy the fucking TV show, or enjoy being with your son, or shut off.
SPEAKER_02:I think as you age that will become easier. I really're absolutely right on that, because my dad said the same damn thing.
SPEAKER_03:He said the same thing.
SPEAKER_02:The energy I had in life towards life in my twenties is vastly different from the energy I have for life.
SPEAKER_03:And this is a great segue into this. I think I mentioned this on an episode before. I don't know if I aired it. I don't know who knows. But maybe it wasn't an episode. But either way, you know, I talked to my uncle Mike, my dad's brother, and around my age, he was about as livid about religion as I am. Okay. Okay, so he's two and a half year than my dad. So your age. Your guy's age. And he got to a point where he saw the value that it provided. And he said, that's where he's gonna leave it. Because he's somebody who is still a seeker, still, you know, he said, I mean, he's an incredibly intellectual person, one of the smartest people. I know he's the one I've talked about on here that has his picture up at Triton, and the whole goal was to get my picture next to his, and you know, he had he was the only probably person with Triton who had a chance at Harvard and Princeton and those fucking places. Like brilliant man. Also one of the most frustrated people that cannot settle down to the point people are off put by him.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_03:Now, the difference is I have a bit of the social qualities of my dad. Mike is far more intelligent than I am. No problem admitting that. No question.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:However, he's got the same anger and frustration about things that he doesn't understand, wants to understand, but religion's something that gradually became something he could be like, you know what? I see the value in it. I'm gonna leave it at that and move on to something else. Right now is big things politics.
SPEAKER_02:Uh no thanks. But you know, and and I don't know that that's the most intelligent quadrant you could have invested in. Well, that's beside the point.
SPEAKER_03:My thing is that's beside the point, though. My thing is that, you know, he was he said, you know, I talked to him, actually I talked to him about mother. This is probably about a month and a half ago. And I ranted to him about my this point. I was in ranting mode, and I was ranting to him about my position in that. And by the way, he validated a lot of that from a much calmer standpoint because he's gone through that anger for it. He looked at his local churches and his some upbringing things and like very angry about all of it. And there got to be a point, I think age does that. My dad was an incredibly pretty undertones of anger consistently when I was when he was my age and younger. But now he's incredibly mellow. It's interesting how age maybe sobers you a bit. The difference with me is, you know, my 20s, I wasn't like this. I hit my 30s, and boy, I'm just irate all the fucking time. I didn't have this undercurrent. I guess maybe you had different stages at different times.
SPEAKER_02:Life's questions weren't as big at 20 as they are at 30.
SPEAKER_03:But I didn't think I know it's my dad, you know. By my age, he was much more mellow than he was in his 20s. Truly. Like he had me when I was 20, when he was 23, I think. So, you know, I don't know. Maybe that's just my path is starting a little later. Just like I did my sex. Just like I didn't have sex till I was 26. Take it, yeah. Didn't have a child till I was 30. How old am I? 31. I guess different paths start at different points, but I I wish I was where my uncle isn't that what I'm the same. What? The paths. They're different. Nobody's listening to you. Oh, you're not even here. Oh. Nobody's hearing you because I'm talking to nobody. Wouldn't that be terrible? You're like given all these. I am totally AI.
SPEAKER_02:I hope not. I would have a better body if I was AI.
SPEAKER_03:You're pretty you're pretty good. I would have a better body. Thank you. Anyway, the the one thing I wanted to share earlier, and I think I can still go back to this a little bit, is you know, you mentioned the kind of the sanitation of Christianity and and you know, playing it safe to be accessible and understood and all this stuff. Guff and I had a great conversation about this. You remember that song I wrote about Christianity?
SPEAKER_02:Vaguely.
SPEAKER_03:Vaguely, fair enough. You remember it was Scathing. Scathing, and you were very uncomfortable when you read it. Yeah. Okay. I let I let the voices heavily influence that song.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:That was also a lot of me, but they influenced a lot of the vernacular and things like that.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_03:I show that song to Guff, who is a Christian. Um and he has struggled with his faith because he, you know, there were different times in his life that he he expected God to provide certain things for him that didn't happen. Yeah. That totally got fucked up. His true desires in life that he was following the path, and yada yada, none of it happened. In fact, it blew up in his face. So, but he's still, you know, Christian, struggling still with his faith. But I showed him that song. There was no judgment from him. There was nothing uncomfortable. He wanted to talk about it. I can't tell you what that meant to me. I mean, I knew you wouldn't have been against talking about it. It wasn't about that. It's just, I think I showed you right before it was like one o'clock in the morning, and you know, you had to work the next day. Meanwhile, I'm usually up till 6 a.m. writing scathing songs about Christmas. By the way, it meant so much to me that he was willing to have the conversation about something that unbelievably scathing about something that is so core to him. Now he knows me, and I've shared things with him and you, and probably about more to you two than probably just about anybody with depth of struggle and darkness and all that shit. That's why he keeps coming on the show. Um we're gonna have him back. And we're gonna have him back in a couple weeks. Show on Nen, being a man. Um But anyway, one thing that came out of that conversation that was is we ended up completely on polar different sides of that conversation. I stuck where I was, he stuck where he was. Our friendship didn't change. No dynamic changed. In fact, I think an understanding and a respect grew from that that we didn't already have. Yeah, you know where I'm going with that.
SPEAKER_02:I like the respectives.
SPEAKER_03:What's interesting is he mentioned that one of his biggest struggles with going to church, and he used the temptation of Christ as an example. That story is, you know, and this his perspective is, and I totally agree with it, as he said, you know, in the in the story, you know, devil's like, you know, if you do that, I'll give you, I don't know the fucking, but you know, if you if you do this for me, I'll give you this. And he just said no. Duff's like, there's no way Satan said that. He's like, that is the most sanitized, safe bullshit, and this is him I've ever heard. He said, You're telling me the devil is is approaching Jesus with this sanitized. His thing is, his perspective is, why are we watering that down? It's like, where's the punch there? Where's the gut punch there? One of the most amazing things of preaching was that our church did. His name was John Coyne. He got ousted from our church because he handled some things pretty controversially. He was somebody that I actually really liked. I was about the only member of that church that liked him, I think. Because that guy would get up there and tell some outlandish jokes about Christianity. I if anybody from the church watches, I was not happy when he was ousted. There were some very dirty things that happened to get him out that I did not support that were very unchristian-like. You know what they are. But what I'm saying, no, I'm gonna hold him accountable for that. I'll say the verbatim what it was, but what it was is that you know, um he was really neat because he approached things with humor, but one kind of on that subject of not sanitizing things. He talked about the story of the flood and Moses. Honestly, that's usually presented with like the rainbow. Or so Noah. So I'm an idiot. So yeah, I don't know the Bible. Yeah. But then he would gadget. Oh, good. Okay. Um, but you know, Noah and the Ark and all that stuff. You know, it's always presented on on like wallpaper for children, the rainbows and the smiling fucking animals and stuff. He did not tell it that way. He shocked the congregation with how he told it. Because he even said specifically, he's like, this isn't a fun event. This is not a beautiful event. It was cataclysmic. It was the destruction of our planet. I distinctly remember his descriptions. He said, Imagine as the floods are coming, nose on the ark with all the animals, and all he hears is the screaming of the of the people. The thousands, the thousands. And he said begging for his help, begging for his help. And then, of course, you have he would talk about how imagine when everybody drowns and as the ark's going through bodies or bound. Those, that's a punch. And that whole fucking congregation was uncomfortable. How do you not feel that? Don't make it all sunshine and roses all the damn time. But I guess like we're getting back to your point. It all comes down to that. See, clearly I'm not okay with that approach. And that's okay that you're not okay. By the way. And it is okay, and I need to be okay with the fact that others aren't willing to do that. It just kind of plays into And to go back to Guff and I. Like you said, the word respect was really powerful. It is. Now he's willing to go to those depths of conversation with me. But we came out of that on polar opposite sides. I said some scathing things at the time about religion itself. He countered me. Now it was a very calm conversation. The terms were aggressive and scathing about it, but it was a very calm conversation. And the fact that somebody who is that that's that core to him, and it's kind of right now core to me not to be okay with that. To part that honestly, there was growth in our relationship and respect from that. It kind of plays maybe you're going there, but politics, any of it. Just come to the table and like present your case and just talk. It needs to be conversation, not confrontation all the damn time.
SPEAKER_02:Let me go with and I'm gonna generalize. I know that there's one religion that claims to have the true, one true God, right? There's a bunch of them that do, and they have different names. I'm just gonna use the name God for right now. Not because I'm trying to tie it to Christianity or anything like that. I'm talking about the prime mover, uh, universal beginning, uh, what's the singularity, whatever you want to call it, right? But God. Okay. So if indeed you guys had this debate, right? And as you said, polar opposite.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I question every god in the general term, every fearing person, whatever that term means, but you ascribe to the religion that is about that god, right? Of you two, you and God, who is more connected and and walking in the true path of the creator.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know how to answer that, but go ahead. I really don't. I feel like you're leading me one way. Neither one. What what neither is. Thank you. Okay. I just think because I was like, nobody did it.
SPEAKER_02:Because if you're talking about being an open instrument of an ideal, you cannot shut people out. Right. You can hear them out, you can disagree with them, but ultimately you have to respect their views. Whether there's no right or wrong in it. It's never been about that. And honestly, I I think if if anybody knew the man that was Jesus, I don't think, based on the way that man has been written down as saying, he leaves a lot of it wide open for that very specific reason. Because you are gonna have people, and I'll go back to the paths thing, on different paths, it doesn't mean that they don't lead to the same finite uh ending. Right. Because we all go to the same finite uh ending death every last one of us, it does not matter the path you walk. When you do your life review at the end, if you have meaning, if you have connection to source, to loved ones what's more heaven? I agree if you've wasted that life You have no connection, you have no belief structure. That's gotta be hell at the end.
SPEAKER_03:So what would what would your response be if someone said you had to find Christianity through Jesus?
SPEAKER_02:If you believe in your path, great. You are never gonna convince somebody through force. Never. No.
SPEAKER_03:Not truly. You might torture somebody, you don't get. You don't get.
SPEAKER_02:And I think it's interesting that you use that. It is Christian waterboarding to have a go. That's where I was going with it. I mean, honestly, it really is. You have to leave room for all the paths. If you are truly trying to save souls, you cannot shut the door. If they don't want to go your way. But here's the true wealth. And I discovered this probably not even a year into doing that gig. The the nuggets that I came away with, the personality that I gleaned from that community, the fellowship, which is always just a weird, dumb word of the ring. Yeah, okay. Um, no, but truly being in concert with other souls seeking connection to your source. Like that's what it should be about, and that's what I end up getting because I show up. Because they let me come in. Most of them don't know me at all, and probably no one's seen this, but they accept me. They accept every one of us up in that loft, and there's not a one of them that walks heavier than me. Yeah. I have a whole praise team that's that's homosexual, very gay, very gay.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's right. Yeah, I didn't know one of them. That's for true. Yeah. Beautiful people. Beautiful people.
SPEAKER_02:Love them. But that door has to stay open. You are not gonna get the message to people you shun.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_02:And those are the people that probably need the message more. Absolutely. But just saying, whole purpose to your religion, and you're fucking it up. Uh-huh. So I would say I agree with you on the organized religion piece. That that one is frustrating, so I understand.
SPEAKER_03:I do have to say, you know, I played in our church music for a long time. About a year, year and a half. And if I was ever to feel something, it was boils through that music. And of course, we don't have that anymore. And that's okay. It's gonna happen. But Okay, and and just to I'm not saying that was gonna convert me either. No, but to be a complete-felt a spiritual something.
SPEAKER_02:To be a complete It was a vessel, an absolute music nerd, but at the same time talk about the thing you're talking about. I I listen, you and I both listen to a bunch of stuff that most of our listeners have probably never listened to, but we've also listened to a lot of the stuff they have listened to. Sure. We like a broad, broad spectrum of music, right? I can like about all of it. There's do you know the song Oceans? Bite, yeah. Um You walk the Hill Song, uh Green One. Yeah, I played that one. Quite honestly, if you listen to the message and you let the music support that message, it's a gorgeous song. It is one of the best songs ever written. I don't care what you believe.
SPEAKER_03:Listen to that song, hear the message, and you will experience tears. Yeah, that one gets me a lot. It does. And like that and Chainbreaker is another great one. I don't know if you've done that or a lot in my life. See, I know these freaking songs. Actually, I know the words. I feel power through those. I don't know what it is. Well, and I feel connected ever mentioned in those of them.
SPEAKER_02:Like questions. I don't know that no, I think it's left vague. Exactly. But I'm getting happier. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:See, those are the songs that are powerful to me.
SPEAKER_02:Well, same thing with um uh what's that Lauren Daigle? Um I I can't remember all the words um suggestive right now. Killing me. But it's literally the only thing that the backup singers sing is I. Um, Lauren Daigle, what is that song? I can't remember it, but it is pull that bad boy up.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, even professional podcast. They got some asshole in the background looking shit up. But this was even um Lauren Daigle? Lauren Daigle.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And uh oh, she's coming in the anniversary.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, nice. Um, but no, this was actually a hit on pop. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know that one, man.
SPEAKER_02:Play a little bit of it right now. Yeah. I don't care. We'll just play like seven seconds or something.
SPEAKER_03:You know that we get us banned if we play on music.
SPEAKER_02:Um I'm serious. I don't know. It's for good cause, and we're not making any money, so you can't do that. That's a good point, actually. Um now we will. Now we're just gonna play the whole song.
SPEAKER_03:Fight quietly. Is this a Christian song? Yeah. I did not know this one.
SPEAKER_02:Turn it up, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:I keep fighting voices in my mind that's saying I'm not.
SPEAKER_03:Shingo fuck this now, I don't even want to hear this. No, I'm kidding. You will love that song. But it's even already added to my favorites.
SPEAKER_02:It's a beautiful song. But there's song, I mean, that's the thing. Like, there's so much beauty in the world, and sometimes you just have to be let in the damn doors to experience something you didn't know you were looking for.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it's interesting, people find validation in darkness too. I mean, how I mean, uh I'll go and throw the uh my cousin Cody wage war. Some dark shit in that, but boys of validating. Uh Citizen Soldier, one of we mentioned them a ton. Great at expose expressing darkness and growth and and and all of it. Darkness is not inherently bad. Nope. And I think that's something that's you know, slipknot. I mean there's validation in that shit.
SPEAKER_02:There is. Yeah, yin-yang. Exactly. It's right there in your face. But if you look at Christianity itself, you can't tell the story of the Bible without Satan. Right. You cannot. You can't teach without there being crisis. Right. I mean, it it it is all about that balance. There's no growth without pain. Truth. Thank you, Lauren Dagle. Thank you, Hill Song. Some good stuff. Really, truly is. Um, but you know, not the thing that you're gonna just put on, and that's the beautiful part about it. Sometimes when you hear songs like that, it just catches you. Yeah, and it that was your moment. Yeah, that moment was meant for you. Yeah, I've listened to Oceans a million times, and I will tell you, and it was during the second wife era, yeah. So I was uh it was before uh the soul crisis really happened at the end, but I remember hearing that song and feeling so lifted and transported to the place I needed to be spiritually, and it strengthened me for what was ahead. It was the dumbest thing, but it was powerful. I would not have experienced it had I not been in the praise band. And that's the thing, is like if they've been in that, what, 10 to 10 years? If this place now, this was actually the one prior. Oh, okay. But I got you. You know, I implore any of you folks who really truly want to make your congregation grow. Music. Well, start inviting the heathens.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, fair enough. I mean, yeah, uh you know, put it up. It's just like if a gay couple wants to get married in your church.
SPEAKER_02:Are you really truly in love? Hell yeah. Come on, let's do this.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, it's just celebrating. Okay, yeah, that's looked fully upon. And there's still that's a sin, right? That's just a sin. But right, okay, absolutely. I'm going even like that's still sitting with a woman on her period. Sins. What are we in church for? To have them forgiven or to yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What the fuck? I mean, you're told that if you accept the Lord Jesus Christ, even Hitler's getting in, right?
SPEAKER_03:So why are we not letting gays into the church? Or letting them get married?
SPEAKER_02:Certainly. Well, we do let them get married.
SPEAKER_03:In the church. In the church, in that church. Well, yeah, but that's that's a thing. There's churches who won't let gays in. Different path. What for the church or for those people?
SPEAKER_02:The church. That church is just a different path. Again, you are gonna have the people who want to stay on the trodden path. It is cleared, there are no weeds, it makes sense, I know where I'm stepping, nothing is gonna twist my ankle. This is nothing challenging.
SPEAKER_03:You're right.
SPEAKER_02:And there are entire churches made for that.
SPEAKER_03:You gotta let them be. And you think they got the wow. Damn, that's pretty powerful, actually. Even being okay with the discrimination, we can call it that, under the umbrellas of that church that is interpreting something in a different way. That's still providing a path for people to the damn, that's good stuff right there. Live and let live. That's good stuff right there. I like that. Good stuff, man. Yeah, good fucking. This might be one of our best.
SPEAKER_02:I I liked it. I liked it.
SPEAKER_03:I think we might end it there. I don't have any. I there's plenty of tangents we could go on, but I think we better cut it because we got the snippets in the beginning, too.
SPEAKER_02:The only thing that I want to add. Oh, go ahead. I started to say something about it. It was your Uncle Mike?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think on an intellectual level, because I I mean not me saying I'm an intellectual necessarily, but as I've gotten older, sometimes there's beauty in the mystery. You know what I mean? And and I'll be completely crass about it. As a teenager, I wanted no clothing on her. As a somewhat more distinguished gentleman, that's okay. That's interesting. I like well, but again, it's going back to that. I need to shock people to get them to listen, right? But here's the thing that same nakedness that was created by God, by the way, is underneath the clothing. And while I make no judgment on anybody's figure or body or anything like that, you know, sometimes clothing is made to really accentuate that, and it can be so beautiful.
SPEAKER_03:It's interesting you say that, and I don't think she'll mind me saying this truly. My wife feels insecure outside of clothing. Sure, but she I think that's most people. Now, here's the thing, I find her unbelievably gorgeous in an adult. Yep. But I certainly appreciate both. But it is interesting how to me, actually, there's more of a beauty without any. It's not a sexual beauty either.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's uh the beauty is there regardless. What I'm trying to say is that as I've aged, the fact that I don't just see it. Like, okay, so um, you know, you go on any number of the apps, right? I'll just pick on Instagram for a moment. My son's feed. It's gonna be an Asian lady with large breasts in a very small bikini. Okay. Sure. Beautiful. But when you dress her up, you cover some of that stuff. It's a different your attention is not just on the creation because there is that mystery, and there is that uh I mean you're still attracted to what's under it, right? You still want to take them off, right? You still want to get there, but uh seeing that there's mystery, seeing that it's not just in your face, if it's not spoon-fed to you, there's beauty man there.
SPEAKER_03:There's beauty in that, and the patience in that too, right?
SPEAKER_02:All of the above, sure, yeah. I mean, if we if we liken it to the path, like the path is bare, the path is clear, it is obvious, it's duh level, right? But if I go out in the field and I'm not talking about not shaving, okay. No, you don't want to do that. Hey, we are still honest. I'm glad you did it. But going out into it, there's mystery. You don't know what's in the bushes. Right. There is beauty in the mystery, and honestly. But honestly, it's faith that makes you take that step out into the brush. You're not afraid of what's there. Why? You can't see it. Oh, don't get me started on Pete Holmes.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, I I don't know. Okay. But yeah, he opens up a hole through now through comedy.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, we love you, Pete. He's such an intelligent. Love you, Pete. So intelligent. So, so intelligent. But no, I it's only as I've gotten older that I see in those ways. Because initially you discover girls, you're like, oh, naked. I want to find everything that has a naked girl in it. Yeah. Very true. You get a little older, you're like, eh, the naked girls might have been passed around a little much. Maybe I want one that's, you know, got a little mystery to her still. Not, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, maybe I didn't hit this when I when I was getting on this, but I, you know, in the beginning with me and my wife, it wasn't. It's very about it. But the mystery thing is. No, that is where I was getting at that. And I do want to clarify this, because I maybe didn't get there. Is with my wife, you know, in the very beginning, it wasn't absolutely about getting right to the point. Actually, it's not about that now. I I appreciate her beauty in every aspect differently than I did. Sure. And of course, we've been together nine years, married almost six. So there's I get that growth with that. With that. And I guess it's fine to get in other things. Yeah. That's man, that's good too. That's good too. I have to go home look at my wife. UK, look at you.
SPEAKER_01:Bob is coming home.
SPEAKER_03:Good age. It is interesting, the growth or age, even. Just by default. The growth and wisdom you have just ageing and experience, it is interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the conversations we have now in your 30s, very different than, you know, I mean, we still were long-winded, but the conversations we had in your 20s were very different. Well, the problem is when you're that young, you think you fucking know everything. The older you get, the more you know you don't.
SPEAKER_03:There's a yeah, and I like you said, I guess there's maybe some comfort in that. The mystery just like that. Or beauty in it. Beauty. I mean, there's a difference. Yeah, I get you. Okay. There's a difference in that.
SPEAKER_02:That's interesting. Yeah. It's the same reason you start reading the book. You don't know how it ends. The moment it moment you know how it ends, you stop reading the book.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. You're right.
SPEAKER_02:You're right. So mystery is something that is innate in all of us. Yeah. And and seeking those answers, the journey.
SPEAKER_03:And maybe religion should be left to having some damn mystery to it.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's what faith is.
SPEAKER_03:All right. That's a good that's a killer stopping point right there. I think so. Now I think we need to get on abortion.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And uh no, okay. We did that last time. I cut that out, by the way.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. I did that out.
unknown:Good.
SPEAKER_03:That's gonna be on the men episode for some reason. Men need to talk about it. I'm kidding. Well, you know men need to cover that.
SPEAKER_02:We need to control our bodies. And canceled. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Canceled. If that, if nothing before that did that, it was devastating. Anyway, um glad we can slide all the way down. Anyway, I wow, that gave me a lot to think about, even in the thing. So part three? Maybe. Ten years from now, we're gonna cover part no tomorrow. Seriously, though. Because you won't stop thinking about it. He won't stop thinking about it. No, it's gonna go on forever now. What I was gonna say is if if anybody that's in my church or even in Tony's or whoever that is devout and like has these firm beliefs and is willing to have a conversation about this, my goodness, I'd love to have somebody on like that. For sure. Where I'm not gonna approach it at all from a confrontational standpoint. It's all about exploration and expression. Stop just shy of. Well, I don't know if exploitation falls into that one, really. I was being sure. But I was just trying to help you. But I'm serious. It's like these are conversations that are so amazing to have. Whether you change anybody's mind or not, it doesn't really matter. You're exposing and you're and who knows? Maybe somebody makes a point or helps you down a path. We all can affect each other's paths too. Oh, yeah. But that's why it's so important to keep those doors open. Live and let live too on that. You know? So be tolerant. Tolerant is a big one. Not everybody is on the same place on their path. Right. Maybe they'll get to that point or take it completely different again. Who knows? We're all different. And uh non-judgmental is a big one too. They both fall into this.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I think most religions start with that as part of it. It's part of the doctrine. And and it's once that it starts to get parsed out further and further into interpreted.
SPEAKER_03:That's the problem. Again, we already covered that.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_03:So it kind of gets back down to the foundation of things, honestly. The foundation is the purest form of it. Absolutely. It's until we start putting our own. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's why the stories are simple.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. They're foundation. We're good about what's the salt one. Okay, we're done. I hope you guys got something out of this. Hopefully you stuck around the whole time and didn't just shut it off after the beginning unbelievably bad tangents. Seriously, there's a reason I wanted to do it exactly like this. And hopefully the juxtaposition of the growth and the different processing that went behind it. Obviously, you still saw I have many of the same hangups and frustrations about it, but it's a different vibe. It's a different I know there's some passionate, irritable moments too. But there's definitely a lot of growth. And honestly, in this episode alone, I even have some different fucking Tony for giving me other things to explore. This is why the journey is one of our friends. But seriously, I hope you guys got something out of that. I think it was a pretty damn good one. Um and uh couple weeks we'll be doing one with Guff. Yep. Um on Come on, Guff, let's go, buddy. Struggles of being a male in society, and um that's gonna be another lengthy one. That might go more ranty. Rough couple decades. That might go more ranty than this one.
SPEAKER_02:Uh probably I mean, I think it's wonderful that I I think men's mental health is actually getting some traction this month.
SPEAKER_03:So I think it'll Yeah, because we just found out that this was that June is uh 2003 or six is when national month.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. I think it's like 22 years that's been around. I had never heard about it. I've never heard of men's mental health awareness. Nope. This is a nice teaser for next time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, we'll have one more before that.
SPEAKER_02:They don't need to know that.
SPEAKER_03:Nope. Well, now's yeah. No, they don't. All right, guys. I'm uh Carl, cut that up and post. Yeah, please. Anyway, thanks for listening. I got a lot out of this myself, actually, and hopefully you guys did too. Um we're gonna end it there. So thanks for listening. Thank you to all 75. I don't really do that a lot, but I'm gonna start doing that. Thank you to all of you who are listening weekly and continue to grow. You're probably sharing it, or the algorithms being nice to me. One of the two, either might look great for the we certainly aren't paying anybody to do this except Carl here. Um but really it means a lot, and this is not something I expected to blow up the way it did. Um I'm glad that this very raw offensive approach is resonating so much. And I'm glad we're getting everyday people on here. Granted, I know all of them so far. But it it there's something powerful to everyday people versus clinicians. I'm not against that. And I'm sorry that the gentleman we were gonna get on here decided not to participate. Oh, you did hear back? Yeah, you didn't know that. Oh no. Yeah, he didn't want to know. The questions were, he said actually it was his assistant who got back to me. Yeah, I talked to my dad about that. He said, Oh, I know it happened. Uh, just like someone else, I won't mention the name. No. Very first person we were trying to get there. Nope. Same fucking thing happened. So um either way, it was it was sad he didn't end up joining us. That's a bummer. But I gotta tell you, the the big thing about this that I care about is everyday people. Yep. We can hear up and down the research and and and the clinicians, and I'm not saying that doesn't have its value. To me, this is the value human. And you lose that connection when you're always leaning into clinicians. So thank you so much for the success this has had. Again, this is this is not ever going to be about money. It's never going to be about anything other than the message, as the Heath Ledgers Jokers likes to say. It's not about money, it's about sending a message.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Who knew this Joker was gonna be our you know?
SPEAKER_03:There is a psychology of Joker, of him, that particular one. Well, we were gonna that's actually not he not Joaquin's. No, we were gonna. To break it down. Well, we were going to break down Joaquin's. Right. I'm talking about Heath Electric. Oh, gotcha. No, there is a psychology thing of him that's actually really fucking interesting because it's not all completely psychotic. Interesting. Anyway, again, thank you all so much. If you guys want to join the struggle bus, I knew we threw it in, but um comment struggle on any of my videos, including you can comment on podcasts, uh post, I'll DM you the link. Again, it's a supportive community for people to get on there and um share their experiences, get feedback from everyday people. Um we also have fun conversations on there, so don't think it's all about miserable shit. No, we like to have fun too. Uh there's 13 of us strong.
unknown:Woo!
SPEAKER_03:And as I mentioned before, it's not always active. In fact, right now it's hit a pretty we're all kind of on one stop and not really uh we're all off the bus at one stop. We we we're kind here's the thing.
SPEAKER_02:We need some new blood.
SPEAKER_03:We do. But here's the thing it is there when it's necessary. We've different members of us have have definitely sought help and support through there at different times, and it's always been there. So don't think that if it goes quiet for a while that that nobody's willing to help because it's there when it's needed, and I had to adjust my thinking on that too. So anyway, I'll shut the fuck up here. Thanks for watching. Laughter's the best medication. Oh, do I get to start it? I said laughter is the best medication, so you said take your pills. No. Oh. Take your fucking pills. Oh, take your fucking pills. Sorry. Y'all. I usually add y'all at the end of it. Yeah. Soften the fun blow, I guess. I don't know. South Carolina. South Carolina.
SPEAKER_02:Because that's where we're at, right?
SPEAKER_03:No, we're in Kentucky. Shelby Tucky.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, Shelby Tucky.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway, we'll let you go for now. This is the defective schizo effective Nick Witchman. This is Andy Pocket. Aka was known as Tony. T Dog, Mr. T. Got gonna lie to that. Anyway, don't look at the bottle. Oh, I forgot about the knife. I stuck to the new one. I stuck to the new one. Don't look. Oh, look for the look to the is it for the soul or to the soul you'll become? Is it two? Yes. Look for the soul you'll become. Oh, you don't even know our own tagline? Well, I said it one way and then you said it one way, and it look for some soul out there. Look to the bot. Don't look to the bottle, the knife. Oh always look to the look to the bottle, the knife, and the gun simultaneously. And you'll find the soul. And you'll you'll well you'll pass on to some sort of different. Alright, we gotta say this right. Don't look to the bottle, the knife, or the gun. Look to the soul you'll become. Thank you, guys. Seriously. It's been an amazing. Oh amazing experience. Hugs and kisses.
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